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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: anglosaxton56 on Sunday 28 October 18 17:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am stuck BIG TIME.
A friends grandparents are William F Halliday and Nellie Lever. They were married in Weymouth, Dorset in 1922. Thats where the trail ends ??????.
Can anyone find them for me.
There was a William F Halliday born in 1889 and died in 1942 but cant find either in the 1911 census or anything about Nellie Lever. ????
Cheers
Nigel payne
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Do you know if there were any children from this marriage?
Louisa Maud
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Yes. Jean Emma Halliday born in 1927 in Salisbury
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I think your best bet would be to buy the Marriage Certificate?
Both father's names and professions will be on there.
You might also see the ages of the bride & groom.
Nellie might be on the 1939 National Register - but there are a lot of Nellie Halliday's on there?
William was likely already in the Armed Forces, so won't be there.
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I wonder if William was a military man and moved about, your best option is to purchase the marriage cert of William F and Nellie Lever, will give you a rough idea of their births date and parents
Can't seem to find anything that fits in so far
Louisa Maud
oops, you beat me to it K
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Thanks. I did think I was going mad because I use all the sites.
I will be annoyed when I do find them on the 1911 census. They both have to be there somewhere.
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I haven't been able to find them as yet, do you know where Nellie hails from?
What about variations of Halliday, also wonder what the F stands for
LM
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Do you have any dates for the deaths of William & Nellie?
The Death Registrations will either have their ages or an actual date of birth.
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I think de died in the early 1940s which means he was born in 1889 but that still didnt help.
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I assume the F stands for Frank
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Was he of Irish descent?
If you think he died in 1940's (1941 Plymouth?) did Nellie marry again
LM
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I hadnt thought of that
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The William F Halliday you think may have been born in 1889 --might not be him unless he remarried.
A William Francis Halliday born 1889 died in 1941 in Plymouth -- there is a probate, but his wife's name was Annie. So either it's not your William F - or he had remarried.
I agree with everyone else -- obtain the marriage cert.
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Duplicate thread here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802688.
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I seem to be drawn to an Andrew Halliday who married a second wife Annie Hunter 1886, he was a Presbyterian minster, Andrew had various children presumably with his first wife but none with Annie Hunter it appears, I might be barking up the wrong tree though
Son William born 1875, so way out I would think
IF A BIG IF, William was born in Ireland there won't be a birth registration here
Louisa Maud
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You need to buy the marriage certificate.
There are dozens of Nellie Levers and William Hallidays on freebmd of the right age group who could have married at this date.
Apologies if I have missed something, but why is it thought he was Irish?
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I asked because I was following a William Halliday on previous census, his parents were Irish, at the moment we have no idea who is parentage is, it was just a question trying to eliminate the wrong ones
Louisa Maud
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Sturminster Registration District
Sep 1943 Birth of a female Halliday, mmn Lever
June 1945 Marriage of a Nellie E Halliday to Charles Sanger
Dec 1947 Marriage of a Jean E Halliday (is this the daughter mentioned?)
No Halliday activity in Sturminster previous to that, according to FreeBMD
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Sturminster Registration District
Sep 1943 Birth of a female Halliday, mmn Lever
June 1945 Marriage of a Nellie E Halliday to Charles Sanger
Dec 1947 Marriage of a Jean E Halliday (is this the daughter mentioned?)
Death
Dec 1963 Sturminster 7c 754
Sanger, Charles
age 75
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Probate Calendar 1964
Charles Sanger
of Winkfield Stour Row Shaftesbury Dorset
died 24 October 1963
Administration to Nellie Emma Sanger, widow, and B.... E.... Sanger, spinster
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=sanger&yearOfDeath=1964&page=2#calendar
The other person named may be the 1943 Halliday-Lever birth?
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Don't know if this is her
Death, December 1987, Warminster
Nellie Emma Sanger
d-o-b 13 Feb 1901
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Probate for her too, a will
Nellie Emma Sanger
of Stour Wood Kings Court Rd Gillingham Dorset
died 28 December 1987
Probate Winchester
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=sanger&yearOfDeath=1988&page=1#calendar
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The other person named may be the 1943 Halliday-Lever birth?
Indeed. Birth was in fact indexed under both Halliday and SANGER (mmn Lever).
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There is this family in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72Y-X82
Also a bapt that gives Nellie DOB as 12 Feb 1901
Nellie Lever
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1901
Birth Place: East Tisbury, Wiltshire, England
Father's name: George Henry Baker Lever
Mother's name: Emma James
1939 free index in Wiltshire gives a Nellie E Holliday later Sanger born same date. No other in Household
Marriage cert needed to confirm on right lines.
Cas
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1901 same family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSKS-PJ5
Parents and siblings previous page, Nellie only a mth old possibly not named.
Cas
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Looking at the possibility that WF Halliday was Irish
There's only one birth reg with that second initial -
William Francis Halliday
born 9 April 1889
Teelin Coast Guard Station, Donegal
father William Mark Halliday, of said station
mother Selina, formerly Young
W M Halliday and Selina Young married in Bristol, England a year earlier, in 1888
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFTT-TYB
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In 1901 they are still in Ireland
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Killybegs/Corporation/1180539/
and image
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000666508/
William Halliday Head 41 Boatman Coast Guard, born England
Selina Halliday Wife 33 England
William F Halliday Son 12 Scholar Co Donegal
4 more children
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1911 William and Selina Halliday are back in England, though eldest son William is not with them on the census. Living in Devon.
Free index
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW9Z-Q68
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Could this be him in Bristol in 1911
William Halliday, 21, born T..lin, County Donegal
Free index
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X718-8SY
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Electoral registers after WW1 have William Mark Halliday and Selina Halliday in Dorset!
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There is this family in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72Y-X82
Also a bapt that gives Nellie DOB as 12 Feb 1901
Nellie Lever
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1901
Birth Place: East Tisbury, Wiltshire, England
Father's name: George Henry Baker Lever
Mother's name: Emma James
1939 free index in Wiltshire gives a Nellie E Holliday later Sanger born same date. No other in Household
Marriage cert needed to confirm on right lines.
Cas
Brilliant stuff, Cas.
John
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Brilliant research yourself John! :) :o
All that's needed is the 1922 marriage cert to tie it all together
Cas
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William Francis Halliday
born 9 April 1889
Teelin Coast Guard Station, Donegal
Well, what do you know.
1939 Register, free index
Put that d-o-b in, and you get
William F Halliday (9.4.89), living in Plymouth with Annie Halliday born 1892
A William Francis Halliday born 1889 died in 1941 in Plymouth -- there is a probate, but his wife's name was Annie. So either it's not your William F - or he had remarried.
So that definitely is William Francis, born Ireland, son of William Mark the coastguard and Selina (later in Dorset!).
Thanks to Cas we know that Nellie (well, the very likely Nellie) was not with her husband in 1939, so she and William could well have split up. But was William really married to Annie?
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Thanks, Cas.
Yes, I do agree, Nigel really does need the marriage certificate to know for sure who they are.
John
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Nellie states married 1939, so unlikely, unless divorced later or bigamy. He dies 1941. She remarried 1945.
Great findings John!
Cas
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Well, there is a William F Halliday marriage to Annie E Aston in East Stonehouse in 1914.
So he could be the Donegal born chap in Plymouth in 1939.
Death in Plymouth in 1982 of Annie Elizabeth Halliday, born 2 Nov 1892
Though I can't find a likely Aston birth to match.
Nellie looks good. William still a mystery!
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My suggestion of an Irish birth wasn't that far out if Jon's info is right, sounds good to me but cert would solve it
LM
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LM
Sadly I think he is ruled out (unless he committed bigamy!). 1939 index shows the daughter born 1921 in Plymouth living with William and Annie.
So my research wasn't so brilliant regarding him. Well it was OK(!), but ultimately it led to the chap who died in 1941, but probably didn't marry Nellie!
John
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Well Jonw, we rootschatters have fun searching, you never know what the cert brings yet, I just hope one is purchased as I don't like things left undone where we don't find the outcome
Still don't know why he wasn't found on the 1939 unless of course he was away in one of the services
LM
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I'm personally thinking that William F. could be the William Frederick Halliday born 4/2/1899 Thanet, Kent, died April 1990 Swale, Kent.
This man was in the Royal Navy from 26/5/1915 until pensioned in 1939 (he then seems to have served again during WW2). Being in the Navy could explain why he possibly married Nellie Lever in Weymouth.
It looks like, from what has already been stated, that Nellie had a daughter in 1943 initially registered in name of Halliday but later amended to Sanger - Nellie (as Nellie E) Halliday remarried to Charles Sanger Jun.1945 Sturminster.
The same year William F. Halliday (46) married a Violet L. Philpott - Mar.qtr.1945 Thanet, Kent.
I suspect if I've identified the right man that William and Nellie divorced and that he returned to his birthplace with each of them remarrying in 1945.
It's a possible scenario anyway BUT the only way you can positively proceed is by purchasing the marriage certificate of William and Nellie and establishing a) his full name, their ages and his occupation and b) their respective fathers names.
Annette
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There is this family in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72Y-X82
Also a bapt that gives Nellie DOB as 12 Feb 1901
Nellie Lever
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1901
Birth Place: East Tisbury, Wiltshire, England
Father's name: George Henry Baker Lever
Mother's name: Emma James
1939 free index in Wiltshire gives a Nellie E Holliday later Sanger born same date. No other in Household
Marriage cert needed to confirm on right lines.
Cas
Nellie E Halliday is not alone in 1939 - redacted entry on next page which is no doubt the daughter born in 1927.
Annette
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I think it is a wait and see game now till a cert is purchased, hope the originator lets us know
Louisa Maud
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Thank you all very much for your leads and thoughts.
I will purchase the marraige certificate then we will have an outcome.
One thing I know for certain is he died prior to 1953 as his grandaugter states he deid before she was born.
Thanks again.
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The same year William F. Halliday (46) married a Violet L. Philpott - Mar.qtr.1945 Thanet, Kent.
Found a Violet Halliday listed as Auxiliary on free 1939 Kent , birth given 20/09/1900, shown as "M"
Violet Lilly Halliday died 1984 Swale, D of B as above
Louisa Maud
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I asked because I was following a William Halliday on previous census, his parents were Irish, at the moment we have no idea who is parentage is, it was just a question trying to eliminate the wrong ones
Louisa Maud
Thanks Louisa Maud.
There are quite a few possibilities to eliminate. Also the second name Francis, Frederick or so on, might not be recorded in other records and Nellie could be as Eleanor. As said by everyone, the only sure way to find out is to send off for the marriage certificate.
I sent off for one recently and it arrived a week later! So I'm guessing now is probably a good time to send for it to get a speedy reply :).
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Gone are the days when I could order a cert in London on Tuesday and it would arrive Friday or Saturday
Interesting there is an admin for Violet Lilly Holliday nee Philpott 1984, but no next of kin mentioned, foiled again, yes a cert would solve something one way or other and I believe the originator is going to order the cert, hopefully he will let us know the outcome, so often people don't
Happy Hunting
Louisa Maud
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Thank you.
I have spoken to my friend and she can confirm that William F Halliday was known as Fred so the F stands for Frederick. There is a William Frederick Halliday born in Kent. In the 1901 census he is aged 2 and living with his parents William and Sarah in Minster, Kent. My friend phoned her sister and she recalled that the hallidays were from kent and Thanet was place name she remembered.
Thank you too to the person who mentioned the surname Sanger. Nellie divorced William and remarried a Sanger so now the only remaining thing is who is NELLIE LEVER. I guess I will not find out until I buy the cert.
Thanks
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See reply #23 but marriage cert needed to confirm
Cas
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Yes, you’ve already been given good info on Nellie upthread - born 12 Feb 1901 per baptism register.
Birthdate is just one day out on Nellie’s death registration:
Nellie Emma Sanger b “13” Feb 1901, death reg Dec qtr 1987 Warminster.
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Just found William Frederick 2 on 1901, also brother Edward aged 4 months plus George born Dec 1901, all born Thanet, mother's maiden name is Collins, Sarah Elizabeth
Louisa Maud
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So, at the moment, the prime candidate for 'William F.' is the man I described earlier i.e. William Frederick b.1899 Thanet - he was baptised 19/3/1899 Minster which also fits with his birthdate of 4/2/1899 and from the latter we know he was in the Royal Navy.
However, he definitely wasn't dead before 1953 as his granddaughter believes. Perhaps it was something she was told as he was 'out of the picture' so to speak. He didn't die until 1990.
Annette
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I have spent time looking at Emma Levers as this was Nellies middle name and may have struck the jackpot.
In the 1901 census there is a family living in Wiltshire Husband George HB Lever and his wife Emma. In the home are their children all named EXCEPT for a one month old daughter who is listed as Lever only, unnamed at the time. This must be her???
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Hopefully you have cracked it Annette, it is quite possible because there was a possible divorce that William wasn't spoken about, a huge shame but we cannot change history
Louisa Maud
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It looks like, from what has already been stated, that Nellie had a daughter in 1943 initially registered in name of Halliday but later amended to Sanger - Nellie (as Nellie E) Halliday remarried to Charles Sanger Jun.1945 Sturminster.
She is in fact indexed under both surnames at the time, both printed in the births index, Sep '43.
There seems to have been a later re-registration (in 1961) and that is retrospectively noted by hand at the foot of the appropriate page in the previous quarter in 1943. Presumably she was born in that quarter and her birth had been registered in the next.
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Thank you very much.
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In the 1911 census Nellie Lever is living with her family. It is clearly here too in 1901.
Why when I searched the records under Nellie Lever did she fail to show up in search results.