RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: mcadamsd on Monday 29 October 18 14:51 GMT (UK)
-
Looking for a Carl or Karol E. Andersen (Anderson in some records in Canada). Middle initial taken from headstone. Possibly Edward. Son was Carl Edward Jr.
We believe he arrived with his spouse Sophia(Sophie) in August 1914 on vessel Frederik VIII. He was travelling to London, Ontario and occupation is listed as butcher. Sophia was born about 1884 according to some Canadian documents. Headstone for her indicates 1885. Both passed in 1960 in Middlesex, Ontario, Canada.
The Canadian 1921 census has his arrival as 1905 but passenger list seems to point to 1914.
We know he was an active butcher in Nilestown near London for a number of years.
Information from Denmark seems the challenge at this point
-
Hi
Here is Carl and Sofie as married in 1905 going to Minnesota - nr 18+19:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-L1X3-SSD?i=526&cc=1368704
Just to find them in Denmark.
Ian
-
Hi
I have managed to find them:
Carl and Sophie's marriage on 14 Jul 1905 in Horsens Kloster Church Parish - nr 33:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mxg/
Carl's parents:
Svend Andersen (Swedish)
and
Karen Olesen (Swedish)
Sophie's parents:
Rasmus Mikkelsen Buch
and
Anna Sophie Hansine
Carl Edvard Andersen born 11 June 1877 - nr 18:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mxk/
Sophie Nielsine Buch born 14 Aug 1885 - nr 6:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mxj/
I'll post more later.
Ian
-
Thanks Ian. Much appreciated.
The arrival looks close but I think it is another couple. On the document he is listed as single and she married.
The arrival I found for 4 Aug 1914 shows them as married, his occupation butcher and that they were going to London, Ontario. We know he was a butcher and that they came to near London, Ontario. We find them on the 1921 Canada Census and on voters lists. His occupation was butcher on the documents and from family knowledge.
I have found several couples with same given names online with some in Canada and some in United States. Sadly all born about the same time frame. One was even a butcher. I am assuming Carl and Sophie/Sophia were either just popular or tied to someone popular. Thought maybe royal family but that does not fit
The 1905 marriage would seem to fit the arrival you suggest. They chose to head to North America shortly after marriage. But the 1914 arrival seems to check more boxes. Tried to get a link from my tree to post but it seems tied to my account
I have been trying to read the marriage record. Does it list an occupation for Carl?
-
Yes it does. He is a butcher.
Ian
-
In 1914 Carl is heading to London, Ontario alone. He is recorded as a butler but I think it is butcher.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TX-H9DL-J?i=573&cc=1368704 - nr 26 - the record continues on the other page.
Ian
-
The arrival looks close but I think it is another couple. On the document he is listed as single and she married.
I assume you are referring to the 1905 passenger list as it states that they are both married and he is a butcher.
Ian
-
Your second arrival date matches mine. And it is the same ship.
The Canadian document shows both Carl and Sophie. I wonder if the Canadian government created a second document for the arrival for their records. Ages seem switched but possible transcription error?
Hope you can read attached
-
In 1914 Carl is heading to London, Ontario alone. He is recorded as a butler but I think it is butcher.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TX-H9DL-J?i=573&cc=1368704 - nr 26 - the record continues on the other page.
Also, it states that he had already been in USA in 1909 but I think it should really say 1905.
Ian
-
The US document seems to add to this mystery.
So it would seem they came to Minnesota and then he possibly went back to Denmark and returned on Frederick VIII but when Canadian authorities recorded them entering they assumed both arrived in 1914?
I just had a closer look at the 1921 census and it has his arrival 1905 and hers 1910. Wonder how census taker got those dates? From them I assume.
Great clues Ian!
-
I had found that passenger record.
In what way?
-
I have seen the 1921 Census and yes it does say 1905 too.
I am pretty positive that the marriage I found are the Carl and Sophie in Canada, also the passenger lists too
Ian
-
Just re-read the marriage record. It states that Carl's father was in USA at the time of the wedding.
Ian
-
Again great work.
I have contacted my brother in law to see if any of this is in the family history.
-
Cheers.
I'll see if I can find some more in Denmark.
Ian
-
Here are the records from the database for Carl and Sofie for 1905.
Slagter is butcher in English.
-
This passenger record should seal it or you:
Carl Andersen, butcher from Horsens on way to London Ontario in 1914 on the Frederik VIII stating Svend Andersen from Horsens as his father. The second page says that he is going to a friend Harald Krant in Ontario and that Carl used to live in Minnesota.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mxz/
This passenger list I posted earlier is the same record but with his name crossed out. Not too sure why though.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01my0/
Ian
-
And another record to seal it:
Carl and Sofie on the same ship going with friend to Harald Krause in London Ontario. Sofie's father is recorded as Rasmus M Buch in Horsens. There are also 2 pages.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01my1/
Ian
-
Thanks for the added pieces.
Have confirmed with my brother in law that family oral history had Carl in USA for a period and that he was trying to find his father.
He is very excited about the information you have provided
-
Did Carl find him in the end?
-
Here are 2 census records for Carl and Sofie:
Carl in Randers 1880 - nr 24:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myb/
Sofie in Tyrsted Parish in 1880 - nr 63:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myc/
Ian
-
Hi
I have managed to trace Sven Andersen and Karen Olsen (Sven Andersson and Karin Olsdotter (Olsson)) back to Sweden.
According to the above census records they were from Sweden and luckily their whereabouts in Sweden were recorded in their marriage record.
Their marriage record from Kristrup Parish in Denmark in 1873 - nr 5:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mya/
Sven Andersson Lydig born 14 July 1840 in Kronoborg Län (County) in Sweden
Karen Olsson born 5 Dec 1848 in Sölvesborg Parish in Sweden
Ian
-
Sven Andersson Lydig born 19 July 1840 in Göteryd Parish:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myj/
Parents:
Grenadier Anders Germundsson Lydig
Gunild Germundsdotter
Sven and family in the household examination book from 1843 in Göteryd Parish:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myk/
Sven and family in the household examination book from 1872 in Pjätteryd Parish
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myl/
On the right side there is a note stating that Sven left Sweden for Christrups Parish Denmark 29/2 1872. (He later married in this parish to Karin in 1873).
Ian
-
Here is an explanation about soldier's names in Sweden.
"Lydig" in English means Obedient.
https://nordicroots.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/swedish-surnames-soldiers/
Ian
-
Karin Olsdotter born 5 Dec 1848 in Sölvesborg Parish:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mym/
Parents:
Ola Svensson
Pernilla Nilsdotter
Karin and family in the household examination book from 1855 in Sölvesborg Parish:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myn/
Karin and family in the household examination book from 1867 in Sölvesborg Parish:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01myq/ - nr 20
On the right side there is a note stating that Karin left Sweden for Copenhagen Denmark 24/5 1867
Ian
-
Here is a letter from the army doctor stating that Anders Lydig is too frail to continue as a soldier.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mz9/
Ian
-
Thanks for all the added info. Processing all that now.
In doing more digging I found a few more children for Svend Andersen and Karen Olesen
Based on birth/Baptism info I believe they had the following children
Gunil Ellevira Nathalia Andersen 1871–
Emma Mathilde Andersen 1873–
Johan Alfred Andersen 1875– He married in Denmark in 1902 and I have found 4 children
Carl Edward Andersen Sr 1877–1960
Gustav Emil Andersen 1879–1951 He was on the 1901 Denmark census with mother and a sibling but no Svend so he must have gone to US by then. Gustav came to US in 1907. He married "Cecilia" and they had two children A daughter is listed as contact on a 1942 military document so possibly Celia had passed by then
Udøbt Drengebarn Andersen 1880–
Vilhelm Valdemar Andersen 1881– Fins a Vilhelm V Andersen in US but nothing to confirm this is the same man
Alfrida Sofie Andersen 1884– She was with mother and brother in 1901 census
-
Hi
I'll answer your questions here:
I assume Grenadier and Lydig are military rank/honorifics.
A Grenadier:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenadier
"Lydig" in English means Obedient.
Swedish soldiers were given names.
https://nordicroots.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/swedish-surnames-soldiers/
The name Anders Germundsson
He is the son of Germund (Germund's son - Germundsson)
Here is his birth record 1801:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n1j/
The same applies to the daughters.
Ian
-
Thanks Ian:
Interesting reading about names for soldiers and how they were given. Very descriptive.
-
Online search finds a person by same name born 11 May 1800 in Grebo and passing 26 Jun 1883. Listed in a household examination book 1881-1886 Björsäter, Östergötland, Sverige
Hi
I had given you Anders' birth in the previous post. He was from Pjätteryd Parish.
Also the soldier info was given in reply 23.
Ian
-
Is there any other info you would like?
Ian
-
As a result of online searches I have a question or two.
I found a birth record for Gunil Ellevira Nathalia Andersen Birth 4 DEC 1871 Kristrup, Randers, Danmark to parents Sven Andersen and Karen Olesen
From the marriage document I believe they married 29 Mar 1873 in Randers ( guessing Marts is March?) Given that it appears that Gunil Ellevira Nathalia Andersen may have been born before the marriage or I have the wrong family again.
-
Hi
Yes you have the correct family. The record states that she was "uægte": illegitimate.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n26/
Ian