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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: kjmck on Tuesday 30 October 18 14:14 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am looking to find William Dobbins & Rosina Vale in the 1911 or 1939 census. They married Jan-Mar 1909 in the registration district of Bedwellty, Monmouthshire. They had two children whom I can find -
Thomas Henry Dobbins 1911 - 1991
William Herbert Dobbins 1914 - 1991
I was told that Nantyglo is a place that I should expect to pop up.
I believe I have found William Dobbins birth -
DOBBINS, WILLIAM - Order
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 98
I can find no information on Rosina.
Keelan
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Sorry, Keelan
We're not allowed to post details of the 1911 or 1939 on here.
You could check Family Search for them on the 1911.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/hr/search
Gadget
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Oh really? I thought if they appeared on those records then it meant they were deceased. I have looked for them in 1911, but cannot find them.
If anyone could help finding Rosina Vale that would be great.
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It's Rootschat's rule.
I've been looking for Rosina. Do you have any further info about her?
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I've got that William Dobbins marrying a Margaret Williams in Tredegar but nothing for him marrying a Rosina Vale.
The GRO record has him written in but the ref is not correct - same on a couple of sources.
Where did you get the info about their marriage/
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The only Rosinas marrying in Bedwelty in 1909 were a
Rosina Stonehouse
and
Rosina Phipps
Neither married a William Dobbins.
Add - I saw that the first child's mmn was Vale so I checked for other surnames for her in case it was a second marriage.
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Marriages Mar 1909 (>99%)
DOBBINS William Bedwellty 11A 116A
This is the marriage I found for William Dobbins. There is no spouse that I can find, and this is the only possible marriage I can find. Even though I can find no spouse.
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Yes that's the one. On Freebmd, it has that and on the GRO index page it's written in at the bottom. Unfortunately, Freereg says page 116A is invalid. I've checked to see if there is a church marriage but nothing is showing.
Added - I wonder if it could be 1164 (no just checked) :-\
Added2 - just checked pages 116 and 1160-1169 and no Rosina
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I've looked at some other records and the only match that I can find is to a Margaret, which would fit with the marriage I found earlier.
Do you know if they had other children, if William served in WW1 or anything else about the family?
Maybe they didn't originate in that area.
Gadget
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I assume that this is the William that you found:
1891
Penywain, Aberystruth, Bedwellty
RG12/4351/92/25
Elizabeth Dobbins, widow, 36, Wahing, b. Hereford
Mary Ann, 13. b. do
Walter, 10. b. do
Albert Leonard, 4, b. Nantyglo
William, 1, b. do
ADD - William is not with the family in 1901.
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on the transcription of the marriage to Margaret Williams, the father of William is noted as Henry Toy
1901 6 Colliery Row, Rhymney RG13/4942 folio 48 pg 11
Henry Toy head mar 41 foreman haulier coal mine b. Mon, Sirhowy
Mary Ann wife 42 b. Glam, Swansea
Mary Bumford mother in law 70 b. Llanalleth?
William Toy adopted son 11 b. Mon, Brynmawr
John Bumford brother in law 40 doorman in coal mine b. Glam, Neath
Brynmawr would fit with the registration district being Crickhowell. On the GRO index, the mother's maiden name is blank on William's birth reg, as it is for Albert Leonard's and Walter's.
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Ah - I forgot about that. I wondered if Elizabeth had married a Toy but it didn't seem so.
I don't see a Rosina (variations) that fits. It would probably be worth getting one of the certificates of the two boys b. 1911 and 1914 - unless there are baptisms.
Gadget
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Thomas Henry Dobbins born 16 June 1911 was baptised 9 July in Nantyglo, son of Arthur John & Ada.
William Herbert Dobbins was baptised 16 April 1914 in Aberystruth, son of Arthur John & Ada. Father noted as collier on both records, address Market Road, Nantyglo in 1914. 1911 address unclear but could be Market Row.
possible death reg
Arthur J Dobbins 66 dec qtr 1932 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 87
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so there's another baptism to the couple Ellen Ada 26 Aug 1909, address market Road, Nantyglo. On her birth reg sept qtr 1909 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 65, mother's maiden name is Smith.
Ada Vale married Alfred William Smith dec qtr 1897 Hereford vol 6a pg 1015.
Arthur John had previously been married to Maria Prosser jun qtr 1890 Crickhowell. She died aged 41 dec qtr 1907 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 52
Tracing Arthur John back to Herefordshire, I think he was a younger brother of Elizabeth.
;)
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1861 Oaks Cottage, Little Dewchurch RG9/1816 folio 21 pg 11
William Dobbins head mar 42 miller b. Kentland
Ellen wife 31 b. Little Dewchurch
Elizabeth dau 6 b. Kentland
Henry son 4 b. Kentland
Jemima dau 1 b. Little Dewchurch
1871 Hoarwithy, Herefordshire RG10/2690 folio 17 pg 3
William Dobbins head mar 50 labourer
Ellen wife 38
Henry son 13
Jemima dau 11
Auther son 5
Thomas son 2
all born Herefordshire
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I think we need the OP to tell us the source of the information and which of the lines she is interested in.
William Dobbins/Toy obviously did not marry Ada Smith mn Vale. He married Margaret Williams.
Also where did the name Rosina come from? Did Ada call herself Rosina?
Gadget
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Agree with you on that, Gadget.
Last bits for now.
there's a probate record for Arthur James Dobbins of 58 Market Road, Nantyglo who died 22 Dec 1932, probate was granted to George Hooper, retired miner.
marriage reg
George Hooper sept qtr 1891 Crickhowell vol 11b pg 166 with Ellen Dobbins on the same page.
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Have I got this correct~
From what you've found, it looks as if Arthur was William's uncle and married Ada/Rosina Vale/Smith and William Dobbins/Toy married Margaret Williams.
Gadget
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that's it in a nutshell! ;D
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Sorry for the delayed reply. So after reading all that I missed, which caused a minor nosebleed from the confusion it caused me ;D I am back..
What I am about to write down is just so I can get my thoughts onto something -
William Herbert Dobbins 23/01/1914 - 08/2001 married Ethel Margaret Seaborne 03/11/1918 - 08/2004, in 1940. Their daughter Margaret Elaine Dobbins 05/03/1942 - 25/11/2016 is who I am connected to.
Margaret told me, that her father's parents were called William & Rosina. Once I had found the birth registrations of William Herbert & Thomas Henry, I guessed that her name was Rosina Vale. However, I was never able to find a death for a Rosina Vale, nor a marriage for a Rosina Vale or Dobbins that seemed to fit.
So Osprey, you think that this Henry Toy is the father of William Dobbins, who was born illegitimately to Elizabeth Dobbins? It seems Elizabeth had a few illegitimate children. One family tree I have found lists a James Cooke as the father to two of her children - James & Mary Ann.
The father of William Herbert Dobbins then, was not William Dobbins, but Arthur John Dobbins? And Arthur would have been the uncle of William Dobbins? Or do I have that wrong. ??? ???
EDIT - Now I come to think of it, Thomas Henry Dobbins married a Rosina Elizabeth Cook/e. Maybe that is where Margaret got the name Rosina from.
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I was initially mainly interested in tracing back the lineage further for William Herbert Dobbins, believing his parents William & Rosina to be a bit of a mystery.
Osprey, how were you able to access baptismal records for William & Thomas?
I am very grateful to you and Gadget for helping me with this. I have been struggling with it for some time now.
Keelan
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the baptisms are in the Wales parish records on FindMyPast.
Henry Toy is noted as William's father on his marriage record. 1901 census shows William as adopted son. There is nothing so far to suggest that Henry is William's biological father.
Arthur, the father of William Herbert, is Arther James at birth, Arthur John on his marriage in 1890, and Arthur James on the probate record. Address is Market Road in Nantyglo from 1891 onwards.
The marriage record of Elizabeth's son Albert Leonard is also in the Monmouthshire parish records and noted his father as James Dobbins, butcher. The father of Mary Ann Dobbins is noted as James Dobbins, labourer. Walter Dobbins married in Llanhilleth parish church in 1903, father noted as James Dobbins deceased.
It's not unknown for someone to give the furst name of their father with their won surname to cover up illegitimacy.
;)
In 1881, Elizabeth's son James Dobbins is a visitor in a Cook household in Bridstow.
RG11/2584 folio 94 pg 21
Elizabeth Cook head widow 64 b. Little Birch
Elizabeth dau widow 33 b. Sellack
James Cooke son 31 general labourer b. Sellack
James Dobbins visitor 4 b. Bridstow