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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Ian Pyott on Tuesday 30 October 18 21:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi hope you can help me my g g grandfather William mcintosh born 1829 Londonderry Ireland and my g g grandmother Sarah madigan born Londonderry Ireland 1829 married in Port Glasgow Scotland on 31 December 1852
The marriage document from Scotland people has just the bride and groom .no parents can I please have help if possible to find parents. Yours John Pyott
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Their births are well before the start of civil registration and many church records pre-1850 don't survive- of those that do still survive not all are available online. You'll probably need to know their religion(s) and a more exact location than 'Londonderry.'
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Sorry all I have is Derry I believe that is Londonderry??
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If either/both of them also died in Scotland, the death certificates should list the parents names (albeit will only be as accurate as the memory or knowledge of the informant).
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You can often get clues by looking at the names of the children of this couple. Scots had a very well followed naming pattern for children's names, the Irish did not so slavishly follow one, I have found. Just Google Irish naming patterns or Scottish naming patterns and put in the names of the children to thcouple in birth order and see if these give you a clue for further research.
Other ideas: look for Maddigan as well as Madigan and every McIntosh variation you can think of when searching.
Find out if you can the religion as this is important when searching in Ireland.
Londonderry can be either the name of the County or the name of the city. Look carefully at the originals of any records you find to see if those generally entering information were required to or usually entered a town and a county, or just a town, or just a County.
In the fragments of the 1831 census there are four Maddigan entries in L'derry
Townland of Dreenan Loughinshollen Barony Maghera parish
names were
Nancy, Patrick, James & John & their families and servants.
They were Roman Catholic.
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Found a son, possibly, to this couple called David and born at Port Glasgow on 11 Dec 1853.
As at 31/3/1851 she may have been in Scotland (Renfrewshire) and appearing on the census.
Another son Daniel on 20/6/1855 also at Port Glasgow.
OP do you have any more children from this marriage please?
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Another son Daniel on 20/6/1855 also at Port Glasgow.
1855 Scottish birth certificates give amazing detail and this is probably the next step for tracing the family. From Scotland's People website-
In 1855, the first year of statutory civil registration, the following additional information was recorded:
Other children and whether they were living or deceased
Ages of both parents
Birthplaces of both parents
Parents’ usual residence
Baptismal name (if different).
As a result entries cover two pages and are especially valuable to researchers.
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My g grandfather was David mcintosh born 31 December 1853 in Port Glasgow Scotland his brother was Daniel mcintosh born 20 June 1855 in Port Glasgow Scotland. There father my g g grandfather William was a sawyer.
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My g grandfather was David mcintosh born 31 December 1853 in Port Glasgow Scotland his brother was Daniel mcintosh born 20 June 1855 in Port Glasgow Scotland. There father my g g grandfather William was a sawyer.
Have you viewed the 1855 birth certificate?
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Yes it states Daniels father as William 26 years a sawyer from Co,Londonderry. And his mum Sarah madan aged 26 years from Co,Londonderry 2nd child.
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Are you able to give us a bit of a picture about your family please. It helps genealogists 'locate' the family, in history/geography. If we can locate them we can often find out of the way resources that might help open some doors.
Did William and Sarah remain in Scotland? What are thier dates of death please. Did they appear in any censuses either in Scotland or their new location? If they went to another country or to another place in Scotland where was this please? Did their children David and Daniel remain in Scotland? Are there any names that seem to have been used by these two for thier own families that might be family names eg are there any children called David, Daniel, Sarah, William etc? Do you know what religion they were please? Did they name their property after a location.....eg friends of family here in NZ named their farm 'Springhill' after the location in Co Londonderry where his family (grandfather) had emigrated from.
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Hi my g grandfather David mcintosh lived in Port Glasgow all his life his brother Daniel I am not sure. My g g grandfather and grandmother on my g grandfather David mcintosh marriage document 1883 give both his parents deceased. Sarah Madigan my g g grandmother has a brother Daniel born abt 1831 in Ireland and on the 1851 census as living in Paisley middle church., Renfrewshire Scotland, with I believe is his mum Mary aged 60 but no father.as for my g g grandfather William mcintosh I can't find anything about his parents except I believe that he was born in Londonderry. I am a protestant if that helps. David had children named David / Robert / Thomas / Agnes / and William. I am not sure how long my g g grandparents lived in Scotland or if they moved away.
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Have you found the McIntosh family in Scottish censuses 1861 & 1871? (I have looked for them in Port Glasgow but don’t see them).
Also, did David McIntosh marry Jane Cook? If so, they married in 1878, not 1883 (which narrows the search for William's parents deaths).
I can see the family in the 1901 census in Port Glasgow. I also note another son James aged 20 that year that you didn't mention above. Perhaps you didn't know about him?
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I have looked for my g g grandfather William mcintosh and Sarah madigan on ancestry ie census in Ireland and Scotland and can't find them anywhere except in there marriage document. And my g grandfather David mcintosh married Jane mckie 31 December 1883 and both his parents were deceased so I don't know when they passed away. I have tried to find out what boat they came to greenock on but don't know how.
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I think your David was married twice. Firstly to Jane Cook on 20.9.1878 at Greenock Free Kirk. Then to Jane McKie in 1883. I don’t see a death for Jane Cook, in Scotland, so can’t say what happened to her. Parents on the 1878 marriage are identical, including father’s occupation of sawyer. So it looks to be the right man, and there seem to have been children by the first marriage. That 1878 marriage cert also says both parents were dead by that date. David was a merchant navy seaman in 1878. I see he later became a sailmaker.
You won’t find any records of people travelling from Derry to Greenock. Those were (and still are) domestic journeys and there’s no passenger information for that sort of route. There was an overnight sailing from Derry to Glasgow (Broomilaw Quay) 3 times a week, there were also daily sailings from Belfast, some of which stopped off in Greenock. Some also from Derry to Ballycastle and then on to Glasgow. It was a short and cheap route and folk went back and forth all the time. They went home for the harvest and for the Glasgow Fair etc.
If you can’t find them in the 1861 Scottish census, I suspect that the McIntoshes went back to Ireland some time between 1855 and 1861. Possibly Daniel stayed in Ireland. The Irish censuses 1861 to 1891 have all been destroyed so I can’t search there. I searched the 1901 Irish census but did not find him. (There was a Daniel McIntosh born in Scotland, in Belfast, Presbyterian, but he was far too young to be your family). I had a look for Daniel McIntosh marriages in Ireland 1871 – 1921. There was only 1 and it wasn’t your man. I also searched for a death and didn’t find that either.
Probably worth checking English censuses and death records in case the family moved there. If William & Sarah died in Ireland 1855 – 1863, there won’t be a statutory record as death registration only started in 1864.
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Thank you everyone for your help I will keep trying.
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I had a look at the 1881 census for Greenock and what looks to be Jane McIntosh (nee Cook) is listed there aged 25 with her son David aged 1 born Greenock. (GROS ref 564/3 12/15). She was a sailmaker’s wife. So if she died, it was between April 1881 and late 1883, for William to have then married Jane McKie on 31.12.1883. Curiously he declared himself a bachelor then.
But if you look at the 1901 census you’ll see the family at 8 Montgomerie St, Port Glasgow, with 6 children at least 1 of which (David aged 22) was born before the 1883 marriage, so there seems fair proof it’s the right father and that there were 2 marriages. David’s birth certificate should clarify if you need that.
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Thank you again for your help will look back to all the information that everyone has sent me and try and work it out.
Yours John Pyott.
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Hi
OP have you looked at this Scotland census 1851 to see who is with Sarah Madagan. Copied from FS. She may be there with others of her Maddigan/Madigan family as this is before she married.
Sarah Madagan
Scotland Census, 1851
Name Sarah Madagan
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Gender Female
Age 22
County Renfrewshire
Birth Year (Estimated) 1829
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Yes I got that census record she obviously moved out on her own
Thank you john