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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: bugbear on Wednesday 31 October 18 12:26 GMT (UK)
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He was born 1851, in Mile End, to another Isaac William Mallindine, mother was Martha Ann.
I have the following Census records for him;
1861 RG 9/268/54 p 8
1871 RG10/516/55 p 2
1881 RG11/595/105 p 22
1901 RG13/359/43 p20.
1911 RG14/1787.
He died in Lambeth, 1911 (FreeBMD).
He appears to have had 3 wives;
Elizabeth Moore, mar 1878-08-05, Bethnal Green
A "Brown" listed as mother maiden name in a GRO record for Marth Ann Mallindine, b3rd qtr, 1895
Sarah Susanna Peploe, mar 1895-03-25, Southwark.
So far, so good.
My problem is 4 of his children;
George (b1880), Amos(b1888), William(b1890), Ernest(b1893).
I cannot find a birth registration for any of them. It may be "interesting"
that their births seem to fall around the time of the missing 1891 census.
If anyone can help me find the census, and/or birth records for the children I would be very grateful.
BugBear
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A "Brown" listed as mother maiden name in a GRO record for Marth Ann Mallindine, b3rd qtr, 1895
Sarah Susanna Peploe, mar 1895-03-25, Southwark.
Surely a child born 3rd quarter 1895 after a marriage 25 March 1895 (1st quarter) would have Peploe/w as the mother's maiden surname if indeed Sarah was a spinster when she married
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She's Sarah Ann Peploe in the FreeBMD index for the 1895 marriage.
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She's Sarah Ann Peploe in the FreeBMD index for the 1895 marriage.
...& indeed Sarah Ann Peploe on the parish record (33, spinster, dau of Edward Peploe, decd, decorator).
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I'd have thought it likely that Sarah brought the four mystery sons into the marriage with her.
George, Amos and William all have middle initial M per 1901 - have you found out what that stands for? Perhaps the surname they were born/registered with?
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I'd have thought it likely that Sarah brought the four mystery sons into the marriage with her.
George, Amos and William all have middle initial M per 1901 - have you found out what that stands for? Perhaps the surname they were born/registered with?
Sorry; I have found census records for Susan/Sarah/Susanna Peploe as follows:
1861, 1871, 1881, 1901, 1911.
She was b1858, d1914. She is an unmarried laundress living with her father in 1881, and is Mrs Mallindine in 1901.
You can see my interest in "various people's" 1891 censuses! :)
BugBear
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How odd. Presumably you have seen how long Sarah claims to have been married for, per 1911 - and how many children with Isaac?
I wonder whether they had a relationship on the side and her children were kept under the radar, records-wise?
What happened to Elizabeth Mallindine (23 in 1881) - I can't see a good match for a death?
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How odd. Presumably you have seen how long Sarah claims to have been married for, per 1911 - and how many children with Isaac?
I wonder whether they had a relationship on the side and her children were kept under the radar, records-wise?
What happened to Elizabeth Mallindine (23 in 1881) - I can't see a good match for a death?
This, I think, although I'd hate to defend it before a good barrister;
FreeBMD
Deaths Dec 1898
Mallendine Elizabeth 37 St. Saviour 1d 29
calc: 1898-37=1861
BugBear
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Just to confuse matters further, there is a 1900 Southwark school record for a Martha Mallendine born 26.12.1896 with parent Elizabeth Mallendine ???
Is this "our" Martha - albeit birthdate a year out - and if so Elizabeth is still around in 1900?
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How odd. Presumably you have seen how long Sarah claims to have been married for, per 1911 - and how many children with Isaac?
Those dates and numbers apply (IMHO) to Isaac's "aggregate wives".
BugBear
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I think (and thanks for the discussion, which has crystallised my thoughts) that Isaac was living in sin with Sarah, possibly under the name (either for him or her) or "Brown".
So the 1891 census, and the childrens' births would not be under the obvious names.
The relationship is clearly complex - nobody's commented on the witness at the 1878 Mallindine/Moore marriage... (highlighted)
dan-dun-DAH!
BugBear
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Have you seen the interesting amendments made in 1923 to the marriage register entry for Ernest Mallindine and Rose Midwinter (married at St Mark, Walworth, 31 May 1914)?
Column 2 (name & surname) - originally Ernest Mallendine. For "Mallindine" read "Peploe otherwise Mallindine".
Column 3 (age) - originally 20 for Ernest. For "20" read "21".
Column 7 (father's name & surname) originally Isaac William Mallindine. For "Isaac William Mallindine" read "Amos Peploe".
Corrected on 3rd October 1923 by me A Cottam, vicar, in the presence of Ernest Peploe & Rose Peploe, the parties married, a statutory declaration having been made as to the facts.
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One to look at for Ernest?
Ernest Peploe, mmn Moore, Dec qtr 1892 Lambeth 1d 322.
This is consistent with his birthdate as reported later on (when he and wife Rose are using the Peploe surname) of 3rd November 1892.
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A death for his brother Amos?
Amos Peplow aged 24, Jun qtr 1913 Strand.
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Another one:
William Peploe, mmn Moore, birth reg Dec qtr 1890 St Saviour Southwark.
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In fact I see (free index) that both George and William are using Peploe in 1911.
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Have you seen the interesting amendments made in 1923 to the marriage register entry for Ernest Mallindine and Rose Midwinter (married at St Mark, Walworth, 31 May 1914)?
Column 2 (name & surname) - originally Ernest Mallendine. For "Mallindine" read "Peploe otherwise Mallindine".
Column 3 (age) - originally 20 for Ernest. For "20" read "21".
Column 7 (father's name & surname) originally Isaac William Mallindine. For "Isaac William Mallindine" read "Amos Peploe".
Corrected on 3rd October 1923 by me A Cottam, vicar, in the presence of Ernest Peploe & Rose Peploe, the parties married, a statutory declaration having been made as to the facts.
No. To my shame, I have had that certificate for a while, and never read the note. :-[
It appears that this may be a close knit and intermarried trio of families (Malllindine, Peploe, Moore), and some "casual adoption" has been going on.
I will endeavour to decode it all.
BugBear
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1891 census: 2 Victoria Court, St Mary Lambeth:
Amos Moore 35 General labourer St George's
Sarah do 30 Newington
George do 10 St George's
William do 6mo Lambeth
RG12/388/25/50.
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Another child?
Frances Mary MOORE, born 16 Oct 1886 and baptised 7 November 1886 at St Saviour, Southwark.
Parents: Amos (labourer) and Sarah Ann, of Union St.
Southwark poor law records show Amos (7) and Frances (9) PEPLOE admitted together to a workhouse infirmary on 21 August 1895.
Frances was transferred to the National Hospital on 24 September 1895.
Amos was discharged on 9 November 1895.
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Wow - I think you've implicitly cracked the case. I shall get these records downloaded and consolidated.
Thank you!
BugBear
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More family admissions to the Southwark workhouse infirmary:
12 Oct 1895: Ernest Peploe aged 3, discharged 9 November 1895
30 Nov 1895: Wm Peploe aged 5, transferred to National Hospital 10 December 1895
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More on Frances:
Married 4 Mar 1906 St Peter, Southwark as Frances Mary Peploe, 19 (to William Arthur Sculthorp, 21).
Her father: Amos Peploe (deceased), market porter.
Witnesses: George William Peploe, Elizabeth Sculthorp.
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School records:
Orange St School, Southwark
Mary F Moore b 16 Oct 1886, admitted 19 Apr 1893. Father: Amos, labourer, of 12 Paved Pl, Gravel Lane.
Amos Moore b 21 Oct 1888, admitted 08 May 1893. Father: Amos, labourer, of 12 Paved Pl, Gravel Lane.
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A death for his brother Amos?
Amos Peplow aged 24, Jun qtr 1913 Strand.
Amos's death on Tuesday 24 June 1913 resulted from a fall from a Holborn building in the course of his occupation as a window-cleaner (Daily Herald, 28 June 1913).
He had married Sarah Dickenson at Christchurch, Southwark on 26 May 1912 (as Amos Peplow). Their son William Peplow was born 7 Jan 1913 and baptised 23 Feb 1913 at St George the Martry, Southwark.
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I still haven't worked this out. I now have a large pile of records, and individuals.
They each and all seem to use the surnames Peploe, Moore and Mallindine more or less interchangeably over their lifetime!
BugBear
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Hello bugbear,
I have done a lot of research on Isaac William and his two wives, Elizabeth Moore and Sarah Susanna Peploe. I've documented most of it on my Mallandain website - Isaac's page is complete but Susanna's is not quite finished (I published the draft for you to review). You can find the pages here:
http://www.mallandain.com/isaac.moore.htm
http://www.mallandain.com/rf.peploe.htm
Essentially, I think Sarah was born a Peploe, had a relationship with Amos Moore (brother of Isaac's first wife) and had seven children before taking up with Isaac. I have no idea where the Brown name came from.
I recently ordered the death certificates of Isaac's first wife and Susanna Peploe. Unfortunately, it confirms that Elizabeth Moore died three years after Isaac married Susanna. I have their marriage entry at Christ Church in Southwark on 25 Mar 1895.
I have pieced together as much as I could and have taken a few leaps here and there so my research is not perfect but perhaps we can compare and come up with something as close to the truth as we are likely to find with this lot. Isaac's parentage is just as mysterious but my theory is that his father was Isaac Mallandaine, his mother's cousin. I am happy to share any records I have so if you are interested in anything referenced on the site pages, you can find my email on the Contact page of my website.
I'll go through the post in more detail as I see some rootschatters have found some records I don't have.
Regards,
Lynwen