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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: JDB307 on Wednesday 31 October 18 13:29 GMT (UK)
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I am struggling to find the parents of John Elias Carter who was born 1884 in Lincolnshire. He died 1919 in a military hospital at Whittington, Staffs. He served with the 6th Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment and was awarded the Military Medal. He was married to Charlotte Clarke in 1911.
Can anyone help, please?
Jack
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Do you have his fathers details from the marriage certificate
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Searched everywhere but cannot find the marriage certificate so we will have to send for another one.
Jack
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Did he have a daughter in 1911?
Can't see a birth that fits in so far for John Elias 1884
Louisa Maud
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Soldiers Died says John Elias Carter born Crowland, Lincolnshire.
Soldiers Effects - sole legatee widow Charlotte
Charlotte seems to have remarried in 1921 at Tydd St Mary to Robert Syer
Age 44, father Henry Clarke, Labourer (deceased). Looks like she died in Dec qtr 1939, age 62 (Spalding)
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Earlier post on Johns death etc
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802317.
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Earlier post on Johns death etc
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802317.
Thanks, Rosie.
Soldier's Wills
1919
John E. Carter
Reg. No. 2234
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
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There's this chap in Tydd St Mary in 1911 (free index)
John Carter, 27, son in law to Hannah Clark.
But the married daughter is Sarah Ann!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7Y7-DJS
William in the free index is I think a Clark. S A is Carter.
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The only one so far has a daughter born 1910 ish , MMN Clarke
Married 1911 M qtr to Charlotte A Clarke Holbeach ( from memory)
Louisa Maud
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Can anyone help, please?
Any thoughts on what has been said so far?
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He served with the 6th Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment and was awarded the Military Medal.
Supplement To The London Gazette, 2 November, 1917
2234 Pte. J. E. Carter, Linc. R. (Wisbech).
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30364/supplement/11329/data.pdf
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I cannot find a John E(lias) Carter birth
BUT I have found just 3 John Carter birth's in and around that area 1882 to 1885 as follows
1882 St Neots, no mother's maiden name
1885 Lincold MMN Crosby, found marriage Thomas Carter to Elizabeth Crosby 1884 Lincoln
1882 Spalding MMN Ringham marriage John Carter to Susan Ringham 1878 Spalding
Louisa Maud
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CARTER, ELIES JOHN mmn SLEEP
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ABINGDON Volume 02C Page 306
The 1891 census for the family with the birth mmn CROSBY mentioned in Lincoln:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WT8N-BZM
The 1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSD3-VD2
Jamjar
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This is John Carter mmn Ringham in 1891:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WMTY-WT2
and his father in 1901 but no John Jnr:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS3Y-6TP
This might be him in 1911:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWK3-CS8
He married Gertrude Abram in Cloughton, Yorkshire, in 1908 and gave his father as John. If correct, this would rule him out.
David
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The 1891 census for the family with the birth mmn CROSBY mentioned in Lincoln:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WT8N-BZM
The 1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSD3-VD2
Jamjar
He can be eliminated, here he is in 1911 still with parents
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7YD-293
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CARTER, ELIES JOHN mmn SLEEP
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ABINGDON Volume 02C Page 306
Appears on census as 'Heber' in 1911 is Heber John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7L8-GM3
That is a shame as it was looking good
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Of I am right looking a Charlotte Clarke/Carter/Syer age was born 1877.
Appears to be be in 1881;
Henry Clarke, 30
Hannah Clarke, 29
Ellen Clarke, 9
Harriet E. Clarke, 6
Charlotte A. Clarke, 4, Daug, born Holbeach***
John Wm. Clarke, 1
1891 she is under Annie Clarke born 1878 Holbeach Bank, Lincolnshire
Charlotte A Syer
Birth
abt 1877
Death
12/1939 Spalding Lincolnshire England
She appears on the 1939 register and dies soon after.
I cant find her under Clark/e 1901 or Carter 1911.
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I did find a family with a daughter Daisy, shown as 13 years old when in fact she was 1yr 3 months, we can't talk about 1911 but I am sure this child 's mother was nee Clarke but she wasn't registered as Daisy, so who knows??
I am on the track of John
Louisa Maud
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I think we have to wait for the cert the ordinator said he was going to purchase,
Louisa Maud
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Louisa Maud,
Sorry for the delay in replying but I am back home now and on the road to recovery. The marriage cert has been ordered but they take longer as they are not on the PDF pilot yet.
Jack
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CARTER, ELIES JOHN mmn SLEEP
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ABINGDON Volume 02C Page 306
Sadly, another one that can probably be eliminated. Likely was born Sutton Courtenay, son of John and Julia.
Married to Elsie in 1911 (free index)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7L8-GM3
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Pleased you are feeling better Jack, we will wait and see what happens now
Take care
Louisa Maud
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Louisa Maud,
Marriage cert arrived at last.
John Elias Carter, 27, married Charlotte Ann Clarke, 33, in the register office in Holbeach, Lincolnshire on 25 Feb 1911 It names his father as Richard Carter, ag lab and her father as Henry Clarke, ag lab (deceased). Her sister Hannah was a witness.
I'll start on this tomorrow.
Jack
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Trish wrote and I think she might well be right
Appears to be be in 1881;
Henry Clarke, 30
Hannah Clarke, 29
Ellen Clarke, 9
Harriet E. Clarke, 6
Charlotte A. Clarke, 4, Daug, born Holbeach***
John Wm. Clarke, 1
All above MMN Jackson BUT some registered without the E just to confuse things
1891 Hannah is living as a widow with 3 more children
Sarah Jane 1882
Hannah 1886
Fanny Eliza 1890 all born Holbeach
So we might have found Charlotte and family but I am no nearer John Carter
Louisa Maud
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Yes, I would go along with what Trish has found.
I think that Hannah's maiden name was Bescoby. She was the daughter of William Jackson and Sarah Ann Bescoby. I am wondering if Sarah Ann reverted back to her maiden name after the death of her husband. Any thoughts?
Jack
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If that is the right family found by Trish, then I must have found the right family in 1911? With an error on the original, and more in the transcriptions.
With Hannah Clark and her son William (John William?)
and married daughter S Ann (should be Charlotte) Carter and son in law John Carter (both of the right sort of age)
And in Tydd St Mary!
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Yes, spot on, jonw65. The fact that Hannah Clark is listed as blind (extreme left on original) may have had something to do with the confusion.
Further to my earlier post, Hannah Bescoby's address was the Union House in Spalding, adding weight to the assumption of death in the family.
Jack
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That should read (extreme right on original).
Henry Clarke died 1889 amd was buried on 20 March.
Jack
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Having spent more time than I should have in the Archives I decided to do a search on the GRO index for all John Carters born 1882-1886. None of them fitted. I then wrote to the GRO, asking if his birth might not have been registered. They replied that they would do a three-year search (costing £9.25) but I would have to give them the full name, which I can; the age, which I can; and the place where he was born, of which, in a way, I was asking them.
My next move is back to the archives to scan through the index of wills for John Elias' near relations. After that it will be the newspapers. I am not very hopeful about this and will probably have to accept that his birth/baptism went unrecorded.
So, thanks to all of you who tried to help but this looks like a dead end.
Kind regards,
Jack
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Hello, I think I can answer tis very old thread. John Elias Carter was not his birth name. He was registered as Ellis Carter, born in Scredington and his parents were Robert and Elizabeth Carter. We think they called him John after his elder brother who died in 1905 even though he was officially Ellis. He and three of his brothers all were killed in WW1 and are commemorated on the Scredington war memorial.
Robert Carter, b 1847 Scredington married Elizabeth Culpin Kirk, b 1857 Scredington.
Children:-
William Carter b 1878, possibly died 1968 in Lincoln (Un-researched)
John Carter b 1879, d 1905 9 months after finishing service with Lincs Regiment
James Carter b 1881, d 1914, serving with 1st Lincolns
Walter Carter b 1883, d 1898
Ellis Carter b 1885, d 1919 (this is John Elias Carter MM, 1st Lincs then 6th Lincs died Whittington barracks). married Charlotte Ann Clarke, son Desmond b 1916.
Ernest Carter b 1886, d 1917 serving with 1st Northumberland Fusiliers
Joseph Barnsdale Carter b 1889, d 1890
Samuel Carter b 1892, d 1917 serving with 2/5th Lincs
Mable Carter b 1895, d 1895
There is a 10th child mentioned on the 1911 census but as of yet not found in any records as of yet.
I hope this clears up the parents of John Elias Carter.
Open to any questions but realise that this is an old thread found when researching the 4 brothers on the Scredington War memorial for Samuel's Gt Grandson.
Kind Regards
Jamie
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Wonder why he said his father was Richard, and not Robert.
John Elias Carter, 27, married Charlotte Ann Clarke, 33, in the register office in Holbeach, Lincolnshire on 25 Feb 1911 It names his father as Richard Carter, ag lab and her father as Henry Clarke, ag lab (deceased).
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Well done for finding John Elias Carter for Jack.
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The main clues were a newspaper clipping and two pension record.
Sleaford Gazette 29th March 1919
SCREDINGTON
Soldier's Death - We regret to record the death of Ellis Carter, at Whittington Barracks, the son of Mrs Carter, of this village. The gallant lad had served his country three years, during which he was both wounded and gassed. We understand he was the forth son Mrs Carter has lost in the war, only one now surviving. He leaves a widow to mourn his loss.
Pension record 1 - Widow's Pension 7/WW/1441
Carter John Elias 2234, Lincoln Regiment, Pte
Widow Charlotte A, Rectory Road Tydd St Mary, Wisbech
Pension Record 2 - Dependant's Pension 7/DP/1020
Carter (1) John Elias 2234 Lincolns Pte
Carter (2) Ernest 34479 North'd Fus Pte
Name of dependant Mrs Elizabeth Carter, Scredington, Folkingham, Lincs
There lie the pieces of the jigsaw.
GRO Births Q1 1885 - Elliss Carter Sleaford 7a 487 (mis-transcribed on Ancestry as Ellise)
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Jamie,
Thank you so very much for breaking down this brick wall. I really am most grateful. It has been a long, frustrating hunt. Your two recent posts will go a long way toward helping me finally develop this tree.
You say that you are researching the 4 brothers on the Scredington War memorial for Samuel's Gt Grandson. Somewhat coincidentally, I am researching the family of John Elias/Elliss Carter for a friend who is his Grandson. Do you think it would be a good idea to put the two cousins in touch with each other? If so, and if he agrees, perhaps you could pass the Gt Grandson's contact details to me by private message and I will pass them on to my friend.
We live in a Lincolnshire village and we could visit Scredington which is less than 30 minutes away.
Thanks again and kind regards,
Jack