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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: goatfish77 on Friday 02 November 18 12:18 GMT (UK)
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I am looking into the birth of Bryan NOLAN in Ireland 1886-89.
His marriage certificate to Daisy REES in Swansea in 1914 gives his age as 26.
Father James Nolan - Joiner
His death certificate in 1927 in Ystradgynlais (registered Pontardawe) gives his age as 38.
I have found two Bryan Nolans with Civil births registered within that timeframe in Ireland to a Father called James who was a carpenter, one in S. Dublin 1886 and the other in Tralee 1887.
Tralee, Co. Kerry
DOB 20th May 1887 -
Bryan Nolan son of James Nolan of Kilfenora (Carpenter) and Catherine Nolan formerly Doran, Mary Nolan of Kilfenora present at birth. Registered 20th June 1887.
1901 Census - Co. Kerry, Kilfenora
Nolan James 46 Head of Family Roman Catholic
Nolan Kate 44 Wife Roman Catholic
King Kate 85 Relative Roman Catholic
Nolan Daniel 22 Son Roman Catholic
Nolan John 20 Son Roman Catholic
Nolan Bridget 17 Daughter Roman Catholic
Nolan Thomas 16 Son Roman Catholic
Nolan Bryan 14 Son Roman Catholic
Nolan Mary 12 Daughter Roman Catholic
Nolan Ellen 10 Daughter Roman Catholic
1911 Census- Co Kerry, Kilfenora
Nolan James 54 Head of Family R Catholic
Nolan Kate 60 Wife R Catholic
Nolan Bernard 25 Son R Catholic
Nolan Mary 22 Daughter R Catholic
Under Church records I can find baptisms for all the Nolan children born to James and Catherine except I think Bryan was Baptised as Bernard.
However the Baptism record from 8th May 1887 gives his birth date as 1st of May 1887 which would mean Bernard/Bryan was baptised before he was born.
Can anyone shed light on this discrepancy in dates (and names)?
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Where is the Link to what you are asking about?
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Hi, sorry but …………...
I can't see the entry, the records are up to 1881.
Maggsie
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Yes I didn't see entry either so without a Link to whatever one could waste an hour looking for stuff!
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I did check Kilfenora County Clare, just in case.
never mind goatfish77 will be back.
Maggsie
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Sorry,
I am new to this. Are the links below OK or do you need something else?
Civil Birth:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02555/1945348.pdf
Baptism:
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/32d7740439398?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dbernard%26namel%3Dnolan%26location%3Dkilfenora%26yyfrom%3D1887%26yyto%3D1887%26submit%3DSearch
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Ok, thanks, I think what has happened here, he was Baptised before his birth was registered, dates and times didn't really matter and as the Birth was registered on the 20th June they said his birth was the 20th May.
I have seen this before. Like my own haha.
Some dates are also used as the registration date for their birth date.
A few weeks ago I gave the actual birth record to someone and the date they had was 2 years later.
You would have to get the actual record for his Baptism from the Church to see if it's not an error by the inputter.
Some of these inputters don't alter the previous entry, leave the repeater on, I found this when I worked. It's a pain!
Ok
Maggsie
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Thanks Maggsie,
so should I assume his DOB was 1st of May until I can see the original Church record?
And was it common for children to be baptised under one name but registered with another?
It looks like the family still used Bernard on occasion if it was given on the 1911 census then?
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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0628 Kilfenora
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Basic filters there for Baptisms and Month Year
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Hi, sorry but …………...
I can't see the entry, the records are up to 1881.
Maggsie
Yes....only to 1881
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Thanks Maggsie,
so should I assume his DOB was 1st of May until I can see the original Church record?
And was it common for children to be baptised under one name but registered with another?
It looks like the family still used Bernard on occasion if it was given on the 1911 census then?
It's all you can do!!
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You could try emailing Very Reverend Edward Crosby PP, maybe get a reply....
https://www.galwaydiocese.ie/kilfenora
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You could try emailing Very Reverend Edward Crosby PP, maybe get a reply....
https://www.galwaydiocese.ie/kilfenora
Thanks Hallmark,
I didn't know that website existed!
However the Kilfenora I am looking at is in Co. Kerry and the parish is Spa:
Diocese of Kerry | County of Kerry
Variant forms of parish name:
Ballynahaglish
Baile na hEaglaise.
The microfilm images only go up to 1881 there to but I guess I could try contacting that one.
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;D
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http://www.dioceseofkerry.ie/parish/spa/ Might be a little nearer!
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Baile na hEaglaise... also known as Churchill...
Check out https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0649
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Thanks Maggsie,
so should I assume his DOB was 1st of May until I can see the original Church record?
And was it common for children to be baptised under one name but registered with another?
It looks like the family still used Bernard on occasion if it was given on the 1911 census then?
They are Irish and English versions of the same name. I have a cousin, born and living all his life in Ireland. His parents called him by Irish version of his name and his siblings still do; wife & colleagues by English name; relatives in England use his Irish name.
An English great-uncle was registered with one name and baptised (R.C.) with a different name. He was under registered name on official records in his youth. He used baptismal name as first name and the other name as middle name when he was an adult.
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so should I assume his DOB was 1st of May until I can see the original Church record?
Yes.
And was it common for children to be baptised under one name but registered with another?
Yes.
It looks like the family still used Bernard on occasion if it was given on the 1911 census then?
I would say so.
I have a cousin Emby…….. never found it listed in any site.
Her name was Mary Bridget ………MB Emby, she was known as that name all her life.
Maggsie
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And was it common for children to be baptised under one name but registered with another?
Yes.
I wouldn't say it was common. I don't know if it was common. All I know is that it happened sometimes.
What you have with Bernard/Bryan is 2 versions of same name, not 2 different names. It's similar to Mary, Marie and Maria, all variations on one name. The baptism register may have a Latin version of Bernard if that particular register was written in Latin.
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Baile na hEaglaise... also known as Churchill...
Check out https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0649
I have not seen it referred to as Churchill any where. Where does that come from? Is that the Gaelic to English translation?
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Baile Town
na of the
hEaglaise Church
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And was it common for children to be baptised under one name but registered with another?
It looks like the family still used Bernard on occasion if it was given on the 1911 census then?
Some variations of Bernard and other Irish names on Kiwi Celts website.
fhr.kiwicelts.com/Research/Gen_Nicknames.html
Registrar-General of Ireland wrote a book about name variations.
"Varieties and Synonymes of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland" by Robert E. Matheson (Dublin 1901) Can be read on Internet Archive.