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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: JamesDMcBust on Sunday 04 November 18 18:26 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I have a marriage for a John Edwards to a Sarah Foulks (spelt without an 'e' on the record imaging, but on the transcription they have put it as Foulkes) on 31 Jan 1835 (I'm looking via FindmyPast). It states spouse's residence was Hope, Flintshire.
I can only find the couple on the 1861 and1881 censuses, both stating that Sarah was born in Hope, Flintshire. No idea where they are in 1841, 1851 or 1871. I haven't checked for deaths yet but that won't help me with finding out who Sarah's parents are.
I have done a search of Sarah Foulks and Foulkes 2 years either side of 1814 (as that is her given birth year on the censuses) in Flintshire and it gives 7 possibles but none of them are in the vicinity of Hope. e.g. Northop, St Asaph, Holywell, Mold, Hawarden, Cilcain, and Tremeirchion. How on earth am I going to be able to establish whether one of these 'Sarahs' is my lady?
All thoughts welcome.
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Just immediate first thoughts --- it is possibly non-conformist with being in Wales and what did the couple name their eldest daughter? Often this was the bride's mother's name.
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is this them in 1851? The children match 1861. Address is Tai Draw, Hope
John Edwards 36
Sarah Edwards 35
Mary Ann Edwards 15
Wm Edwards 12
Rob Edwards 10
Eliza Edwards 6
Sarah Edwards 2
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Yes, that's the family. Mary Anne has left by 1861. But it's still the same area I've been searching, so no new clues to where mother Sarah was baptised.
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I think there's an amount missing of the 1841 census in the Wrexham area - Hope missing according to this
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
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possible baptism in Minera 26 Nov 1815 for Sarah Foulkes, born 20 Nov, daughter of John, miner, and Catherine formerly Jones of Nantyffrith.
There's also a Sarah baptised in Wrexham 26 April 1814 base daughter of Edward Foulkes & Frances Jarrett of the poorhouse
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Still don't feel there is anything conclusive to draw from. (Mabel) how did you find them on the 1851 census? I can't seem to draw up the 1851 census from Findmypast and then look for her. There should also be mention on the 1841 and 1871 - perhaps they moved out of the county?
I've checked for baptisms for Eliza's siblings and can only find one other baptism by John and Sarah - Sarah born 1848. The information contained indicates them living at Cymmau as with Eliza.
I can only assume either the rest weren't baptised or some of the records are missing.
Think I'm going to have to halt my searching for Sarah Foulk(e)s parents for now.
Thanks for everyone's help.
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I searched for ROb Edwards in Hope b c1841 and he came up pretty quickly - I note the parents ages are a bit off though. May be they're mistranscribed on FindMyPast? I forgot to put the reference in, it's HO107, 2502, 62, 10 Does that help locate them?
Haven't managed 1841, but children's birthplaces suggest they should be in Hope
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1841 doesn't exist, Hope is one of the missing pieces, so is Cymmau.
FindMyPast had made a mess of the 1851. Try searching for Sarah b. 1816 in Wrexham. She has been attached to another family although at the bottom of a page with John, children are on the next page but may not have been transcribed.
:-\
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Thank you both. Yes I can see them in 1851 and note an extra child Mary Ann born 1816. I've followed her up with a marriage on 6 Sep 1856 to William Davies but all it shows is father John Edwards and that they were living in Cymmau. No mention of any Foulkes as witnesses as I was hoping.
Would a visit to the church in Hope be likely to reveal anything - maybe tombstones with Foulkes names on?
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Other Marriages Hope around the same time as John/Sarah;
MARY Foulkes to Richard POWELL 30 Dec 1836
HARRIETT Foulkes to Richard JONES 09 Dec 1844
(FreeREG)
It may be worth following these couples up on Census to see where Mary/Harriet say they are born.
Mary may at least be a sibling of Sarah as she names a Daug Mary Edwards.
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1851 Census Harriet Jones is born c 1820 Hope, Flintshire, Wales
(living in Denbighshire)
1861 1819 Flintshire
1871 under Harbert Jones
FindMyPast seems to have the Marriage Banns
Name Robert Hughes
Event Type Marriage Banns
Event Date 1844
Event Place Flint, Flintshire, Wales
Spouse's Name Harriet Foulkes
I dont have access
This may be her in Flint, Flintshire in 1841 Census;
Thomas Foulkes 55 Engineer
Edward Foulkes 18 Engineer
Mary Foulkes 55
Hariet Foulkes 22
Further down the page;
Catherine Foulkes 20
Sarah 2
Mary 1
1851 Edward F is born c 1823 Flint
Worth looking at for possible connection to your Sarah.
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I was checking the marriages for the various Foulkes marriages in Hope to see if there were any linking witnesses. No obvious ones as yet but the Harriet marrying Robert Jones gave her residence as Nantyffrith, same as that on the possible Sarah baptism in Minera. Robert lived in Cymmau.
Parish map showing the neighbouring parishes
http://photos.geni.com/p13/d9/5b/33/e6/5344483a9b106c72/north_wales_300_original.jpg
Pity the 1841 census is missing!
Forgot to mention her father John, labourer
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the Catherine with Sarah & Mary in 1841 is in Holywell in 1851 with husband John and more children. Her place of birth is Mold and baptism in Flint for eldest child Sarah notes her maiden name as Hughes.
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Wow.... and still the information keeps coming. I have to say I am having trouble making total sense of it all.
Are we saying that the couple Thomas Foulkes (and wife Mary) both born 1786 on the 1841 census are showing 2 children Harriet b.1819 and Edward b.1823, could be the parents of the Sarah Foulkes I am seeking to identify?
The Catherine Foulkes who is with her two daughters Sarah and Mary is probably married but where is her partner? Incidentally I can only find a marriage to a William Foulkes in 1837 which fits in with the ages of the children as in 1841.
Certainly Sarah was married in 1835 and would have not shown in the 1841 census as being part of this family.
If Catherine was Sarah's younger sister she might well name her children after her sister and mother.
Am I on the right lines here?
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the Catherine Foulkes from the 1841 was born Catherine Hughes and married John Foulkes. They're in Flint in 1841 & Holywell in 1851. She gives her place of birth as Mold in 1851. I don't think the family in Flint is likely to be yours.
The 1841 census for your area of interest doesn't survive so you are unlikely to find any family members in that year.
The Harriet Foulkes who married Robert Jones 9 Dec 1844 in Hope could be a younger sister of your Sarah. Her residence at marriage is Nantyffrith and father John, labourer.The possible baptism I found for Sarah had father John living in Nantyffrith. On the 1851 census, there's a possible for Harriet in Glascoed, Brymbo place of birth given as Hope HO107/4277 folio 80 pg 6
same family in 1861
Glascoed, Brymbo RG9/4277 folio 80 pg 6
Robert Jones head mar 52 sawer b. Brymbo
Harriet wife 42 b. Flintshire
Elizabeth dau 12 b. Flintshire
James son 10 b. Brymbo
Mary dau 1 b. Brymbo
Jane Hughes sister visitor widow 35 dressmaker b. Flintshire
Thomas Hughes 1 b. Flintshire
so another possible sister. In 1851, place of birth for Harriet & Elizabeth given as Hope parish.
There's a marriage for a Harriet Foulkes to Robert Hughes on 9 Dec 1844 in Flint, her father being Thomas, collier. On the 1851 census, the couple are living in Flint and Harriet's place of birth is given as Northop.So different family.
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Thanks for clearing that all up osprey.
Esp the Marriage info for Harriett to Robert Jones.
I thought the 1841 Census may have not been the right Harriet as I said and at least we now know she married Robert Hughes.
So I agree Sarahs Father is likely John.
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Sorry it was late last night when I posted an got confused when I posted this;
indMyPast seems to have the Marriage Banns
Name Robert Hughes
Event Type Marriage Banns
Event Date 1844
Event Place Flint, Flintshire, Wales
Spouse's Name Harriet Foulkes
I dont have access
I was looking for the Harriet Marriage to Robert Jones :-[
At least with ospreys help it was sorted out :)
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Thank you Trish and Osprey. I've spent quite a while analysing all the information in this thread and I believe you have given me the most likely parents for Sarah with John & Catherine Foulkes. I'll briefly look to see if I can find anymore siblings but then I'll start researching Sarah's husband John Edwards.
Many, many thanks again! :) :)
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Trish, it was a remarkable coincidence that 2 Harriet Foulkes married on the same day and both to Roberts!
;D
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It certainly was osprey :)
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You may have found this already JamesDM'Bbust?
Possible Parents?
1851 in Hope, Flintshire;
John Foulkes, 69, Head, Mar, Lead Miner, born Llandegla, Denbighshire
Catherine Foulkes, 65, Wife, Mar, born Clocaenog, Denbighshire
There is a possible Marriage 16 June 1809, Wrexham, Denbighshire
John FOULKES to Catharine WILLIAMS
Trish :)
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Good morning
Yes, I did find the possible marriage for John Foulkes (widower) to Catharine Williams in 1809 but the name of the maiden name of the mother of the baptism of Sarah Foulkes on 26 Nov 1815 in Minera, Denbighshire was Catharine Jones.
By the Rev Edward Whitley, Sarah daughter of John Foulkes of Nantyffrith, Miner, and Catherine his wife, formerly Catherine Jones.
So these can't be the same couple?
But I do agree that the couple you mention in the 1851 census seem right.
Where do I go from here?
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Thought I'd found the couple you mention below in the 1851 census but can't now.
Can you explain how you searched and found them please?
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I just searched on Anc.
Just entered surname Foulkes, living in Hope, Flintshire.
John/Catherine popped up in 1851 Census.
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I subscribe to Findmypast and the searching method does not enable me to search the 1851 census independently (or I've not worked this out). I used to use Ancestry and did find it easier to use. I cannot find John/Catherine Foulkes in the 1851 census in Hope, Flintshire no matter what data I input. Can you help further.
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I have no access to FindMyPast so all I can give you is the info I posted from Anc.
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I subscribe to Findmypast and the searching method does not enable me to search the 1851 census independently (or I've not worked this out).
you can search an individual census year on FindMyPast by selecting it from the A-Z list:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/historical-records?page=1®ion=united%20kingdom&searchedrecordsetname=
or entering it in the Record set box in:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-united-kingdom-records-in-census-land-and-surveys/and_census
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget for your help.
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If you need any help using FindMyPast, just ask. There are many of us who use it.
It's definitely superior to Ancestry for Welsh records, if you can't get to local archives. The Welsh collection does have weaknesses but are a tremendous resource for those of us at a distance. Previously, I had to rely on the Clwyd FHS resources (I have a tall bookcase full of their booklets!), a few cousins or trips to Wales.
Gadget
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Another after of not getting anywhere I've decided to move on a generation.
I looked closely at Sarah's children, in particular Eliza Evans : census's give birth place Hope, Flintshire.
Willium b.1835, Mary Ann b. 1836, Robert b.1841, (Eliza b.1845), Sarah b.1849, Thomas b.1851
Eliza is living at home with her family in Hope on 1861 census.
1867 Eliza marries Evan Evans
1871 she is with Evan and children Anne b.1868 and Sarah b.1871
1881 she is with Evans and 4 more children : John b.1873, Williams, b.1876, Thomas b.1878 and Hannah b.1881.
1891 she with Evan with John, William, Thomas, and 3 more kids : Oswell b.1883, Lydia b.1886 and Matthew H b. 1889.
The 1861 census is the only indication of Eliza's parents
It says father John Edwards Head, married, male 50 (1811) labourer birth place Hope, Flintshire.
It says mother Sarah Edwards Wife, married, female 47 (1814) birth place Hope, Flintshire.
The family are living in Cymmau, Hope, Wrexham, Flintshire, Wales.
The baptism of Eliza on 6 July 1845 by John and Sarah took place in Hope, Flintshire, and states that the family were living in Cymmau.
I can find a marriage of a John Edwards of Hope to a Sarah Foulks of Hope at Hope church on 31 January 1835.
1881 census gives John and Sarah Edwards living at Cymmau Mountain, Hope (Flint), Chester, Flintshire. All children have left.
I am confident with that all this information is correct and it leads to think that the family remained in the same area for the majority of their lives. Getting beyond is proving very difficult.
I have searched for baptisms for Sarah Foulk(e)s around 1815 but there are none in/around Hope. I can find one at Minera 26 Nov 1815 (parents John and Catherine) but Minera is in Denbighshire and some distance from Hope with no obvious link. There is another baptism of a Sarah to a John Foulkes and his wife Catherine (formerly Jones).
I can find a marriage n Wrexham of a John Foulkes to Catharine Williams (they were residing in Minera Township) but no connection to Hope, Flintshire.
All random bits of information that I don't feel happy about adding to my tree.
If anyone has any suggestions I would be so pleased. Otherwise this search is definitely ending soon. :(
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Minera some distance away? It's the neighbouring parish to Hope. Did you look at the parish map I posted earlier? The 1851 shows the family in the recently created parish of Llanfynydd which according to Genuki is 3 miles from Minera.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/gazetteer/nearby?place=FLNLlanfynydd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfynydd,_Flintshire