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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: rubymelia on Tuesday 06 November 18 22:18 GMT (UK)
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I have found a baptism entry for my ggg grandfather in 1818 to parents William and Sarah Faithorn in Battersea, Surrey (I know he was born here). However, I have just found another baptism entry, this time in Ireland (I know he was living here at the time) and he is 42 years old here and the same parents are named. This coincides with the year he left the army. Anyone have any ideas as to why he was baptised twice?
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Was it just before a marriage?
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Was it just before a marriage?
No it was ten years after marriage!
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I have a branch of my family where all the children were baptised in the local church, then about a decade later the parents took all the children on a long trip to a Catholic church where they were baptised into that faith. I was informed by the Catholic archivist that it was permitted to have children baptised in local churches where there were no Catholic churches in the region.
We know he was baptised, which was his parents and godparents promising to keep him on the right path, but I wondered if the second ceremony was a confirmation.
Alternatively, did he make a decision to change his religion from one to another: Methodist; CofE; Catholic; etc.
I surfed and found this comment about the Catholic church in Ireland:-
Roman Catholics refer to anyone who is Western Rite Catholic-as they go to a church that is directly a part of the Roman Patriarchy. ... Most Irish Catholics are Roman Catholics however there are some Eastern Rite Catholic Churches in Ireland and you might fight someone with a name like Sean Patrick O'Neal who goes to one.
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If you're sure he was the same man the most likely reasons are that he was changing religious denomination or else that he wasn't sure if he'd been baptised as a baby and was just making sure. Are there any notes on either baptism entry?
Which churches were they?
I doubt if there were Eastern Rite Catholic churches in Ireland 200 years ago.
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There is a note in the baptism register which indicates he was a convert.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633670#page/22/mode/1up
William is #21 in the register - go across to far right
‘Recens conversus hodie sub conditione baptizatus’ or similar - I am never sure of the word endings.
This would mean that today (hodie) he was baptised and converted. A conditional baptism happens when there is uncertainty about a previous baptism. Although at that time, the Catholic Church may not have acknowledged baptisms in other denominations.
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So he was being received into the Catholic Church. Notice that there were no names in column for godparents/sponsors.
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My father was baptised in a Catholic Church when he was a month old but the family weren't churchgoers. Shortly before his death, when he was 68, he was visited regularly by a priest & couldn't remember if he'd been baptised so the priest performed a 'conditional' baptism .. just to be sure. So he was baptised twice. LOL
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I was baptized twice. The first time as a baby. The second time in a different church because making my own choice was the way I wanted to go. It's a matter of doctrine. I didn't read your message closely enough - bad habit - and thought it was twice as a baby. That did seem weird unless something happened that made the parents think the baptizer was a fake?
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I didn't read your message closely enough - bad habit - and thought it was twice as a baby. That did seem weird unless something happened that made the parents think the baptizer was a fake?
Sometimes it appears that a baby had 2 baptisms. Some reasons:
1. First baptism was a private one, perhaps for a delicate or ill child at home or hospital/workhouse infirmary. The baptism ceremony would have been brief and basic. If the child survived, parents may have taken it to church at a later date for " the full works" - reception into church, christening gown, godparents, relatives, a celebration at home, etc. or they might not. I noticed that several children who were baptised at Burnley workhouse, Lancashire, had another baptismal ceremony in church a few months later
2. Baptism took place at a chapel-of-ease, was entered in the chapel register and also in the register of the parish church.
3. Family changed religious allegiance. A great-aunt of mine made 2 trips to fonts in different churches during her first year.
4. Names of babies who weren't C. of E. sometimes turn up in C. of E. baptism registers, mostly pre 1800. They may also be in baptism registers of their own churches. The C. of E. listings were of births, for administrative or tax purposes. Some have been incorrectly recorded as baptisms, making it look as though the babies were baptised twice. Some recorded as births have been incorrectly transcribed as baptisms.
Re "the baptizer was a fake". According to Catholic Church rules, a person carrying out an emergency baptism on a child in danger of death doesn't have to be a priest. They don't even have to be Catholic. The priest should be informed of the baptism as soon as possible. Baptism register of a rural Catholic parish in late 18thC England has several children baptised at home by the same doctor. If there was any doubt as to whether a baptism was valid, there would be a conditional baptism at church when the baby was well.
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Thank you, Maiden Stone. Sheds a bit of light on why some people in my tree appear to have been baptized twice.
Baptism is a sacrament that can be administered by anyone: it doesn't have to be an ordained clergyman.
I think I was told that by our (Anglican) school chaplain, so it's evidently not restricted to the Catholic faith.