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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Jackiemh on Thursday 08 November 18 04:34 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for suggestions on Harriet. She may have been born in 1867 West Ham with mother's maiden name Cooke.
In 1888, Dec qtr West Ham (4a 2), Harriet married Albert Henry Stillgebauer giving her father's name as Henry Elliott.
I have just got copies of birth certificates for their children Harriet, b1895 and Mary Ann b1897 which give mother's name as Harriet Hilliard (very clearly written) and I have checked the GRO index for Frank b1899, which also has the same mother's name.
I have checked for marriages between Elliott/Hilliard and Stillgebauer/Hilliard and drawn a blank. Any ideas?
Jackie
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Just a thought. Using the surname HILLIARD there is a baptism of Harriet Hilliard on 14 Feb 1869 at Saint Thomas, Stepney with parents Henry and Elizabeth and I think this Harriet is living in with her mother (who is a widow) in 1871 and below in 1881 living in Ratcliff all born Stepney.
Elizth. Hilliard 50 Washerwoman
Eliza Hilliard 19
Jane Hilliard 16
Harry Hilliard 15
Harriett Hilliard 12
However I can't see this family in 1891 at the moment or see a reason for a name change :-\
Kay
Added -do you have Harriett's marriage cert with her fathers occupation and any witnesses?? Looking at family trees on Anc are Albert and Harriett listed with the surname Bower in 1891/1901?
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Only a thought but I wonder if Hilliard be misheard as Elliot?
Cathy
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Only a thought but I wonder if Hilliard be misheard as Elliot?
Cathy
I like that thought Cathy :) For ref a previous thread in this really complicated family https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=741172.0
Kay
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I initially thought about Elliott being misheard as Hilliard but on 3 registrations between 1895 and 1899? Although, as Harriet left her mark in place of a signature, she wasn't able to check on her surname being correct. I haven't yet got the marriage certificate for Albert and Harriet, that was on my to do list. Just to complicate matters, the Stillgebauer family changed their surname to Bower(s) before WW1 so some documents are in the former surname and others in the latter.
Thanks for your comments. Jackie
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I think Cathy meant Harriet's surname on the marriage cert and especially if Harriet couldn't read/write
Kay
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That would make more sense. Ok will get the marriage certificate; and I will see what other spanners turn up in the works.
Jackie
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Good luck and do let us know what it says :)
Kay
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In 1888, Dec qtr West Ham (4a 2), Harriet married Albert Henry Stillgebauer giving her father's name as Henry Elliott.
You can see the marriage here (need to be logged in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZN9-QPZ?i=33&cc=1465709&cat=402202
Residence for both 3 Bolton Road.
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Witnesses Wray?
All signed.
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Have you considered that these could be two different Harriets.
Harriet Elliott wrote a clear signature on her marriage certificate.
Did your Harriet have any children before 1895? She seems to have had children with two year gaps, but the first child as born seven years after her marriage.
Having said that, I can’t see a death for the first Harriet.
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I have just had a quick look the family search link but can't get a clear enough image (will try later when I have more time). If the witnesses are Wray, Albert's sister, Margaret Elizabeth married Albert Thomas Wray in 1885. I have ordered the marriage certificate.
I had wondered about there being 2 Harriets but hadn't come across the 1st one dying and another marriage for Albert. Although it is possible that Albert and Harriet (1) split and Albert lived with the 2nd Harriet. I haven't found any children for the years before 1895 either.
Just to add to things, Albert died in 1909, and I haven't found the rest of the family in the 1911 Census.
Thanks for your time and ideas, Jackie
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I have had time now to check the information from the familysearch image. The writing is quite clear as to Elliott and Harriet's signature is there, ie no mark.
Another thing, I have just checked my copies of the 1891 and 1901 Census. Albert only gets 7 yrs older and Harriet 5yrs - I was not too concerned about this originally - but maybe there were 2 Harriets. I have looked again for 1911 Census using Harriet Hilliard and for a marriage for Harriet Hilliard between 1909 and 1911 and so far drawn a blank.
I have contacted members of the family who are interested for their thoughts but it may be one of those questions to which we will never know the answer.
Thanks again, Jackie
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I wonder if this is another child for the couple?? Listed on FreeBMD as Stillgevauer
ALBERT STILLGEVANER mmn HILLVARD
GRO Ref 1893 Sept Qrter WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 90
Kay
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Oh dear, I would say very likely, although I hadn't come across that spelling before but it looks too close to be dismissed. I will check it out.
Thanks Jackie
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I haven't found the rest of the family in the 1911 Census.
Frank is at a Scattered Home in West Ham as Frank BOWERS.
Class: RG14; Piece: 9673; Schedule Number: 480
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/scatteredhomes/
Debra :)
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Yes, that looks like him. Will try to see what happened to him.
Thanks Jackie
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Is this Harriet's death?
Dec 1904 West Ham 4a 63
Stillgebower, Harriet
age 36
Buried in a Newham cemetery, 27 October 1904 (Stillgebauer)
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Same quarter, same year
Birth
Dec 1904 West Ham 4a 140
Stillgebower, Samuel
mother Elliott
Death, same reference as Harriet
Dec 1904 West Ham 4a 63
Stillgebower, Samuel
age 0
Samuel Stillgebauer
Buried 27 October, ? Cemetery in Newham
Same day as Harriet.
So, Harriet nee Hilliard, and Elliott, same person?
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A great find jon! At least it solves one part of the conundrum.
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Thanks for hopefully proving the theory John ;D
Kay
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Hi
Yes Kay, your Harriet Hilliard from Stepney does look very likely to be the right lady. Well found!
And thanks Lily, you're right about the conundrum. So odd about Elliott!
John
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Have this birth already been found??
WILLIAM STILLGEBAUER mmn HILLIARD
GRO Ref 1901 Dec Qrter WEST HAM Vol 04A Page 146
Kay
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Great findings. I thought I had found most of the Stillgebauer 'pieces' and Harriet's death in 1904 explains a lot. Will check them out.
Thank you again. I haven't heard back from the family - I think they are still reeling!
Jackie