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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: bugbear on Tuesday 13 November 18 15:11 GMT (UK)
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I have been chasing a Sarah Close;
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=803270.0
Following up some census results, I found a possible death in FreeBMD
Deaths Jun 1878
CLOSE Sarah 72 Whitechapel 1c 210 (gives DOB 1806)
Adding this to my ancestry search led to a matching, and very helpful looking, workhouse record in Tower Hamlets.
I can easily read that she was 72, she was admitted 25 Mar 1878, and discharged (remarks: "dead" :'() on 10 Apr 1878.
But the main addition information (heading: "Residence", "married or single", "calling", "cause of admission" are all opaque to me.
it appears to start with a number "86150", the "Card St, found in Edward St, Bethnal Green".
I note that the two "unknown boy"s on the lines below also have such a number (86101).
I *think* admission might be "infirm and destitute", but I'm pushing my luck.
I would welcome advice from people with better eyes or better knowledge.
BugBear
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Earlier in the same register, I found a similar "number" written in a much clearer hand; it looks like some kind of cross reference, but to what/where? It appears my "86" might be "PC" (!!!)
BugBear
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These numbers appear to refer only to people 'found' on the streets :-\
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Canal St ??
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The entry below Sarah's appears to read
PC 101 Lemon Street Police Station, found in ? Road
Is it vaguely possible that the number is in fact that of a Police Constable, and the address that of his Police Station?
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Whitechapel Union Infirmary Register of Deaths, April 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-PHS6?i=181&cat=1249964
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I read it as PC105H Canal St found in Edward St.
I am thinking, like JenB, that the number refers to the police constable who found her.
Regards
GS
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I read it as PC105H Canal St found in Edward St.
I am thinking, like JenB, that the number refers to the police constable who found her.
Regards
GS
Yes, me too
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And me!
Also available here
Whitechapel Infirmary: Porter's Admission + Discharge Register 1877-78
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1B-CS9T-5?i=950&cat=1249964
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The entry below Sarah's appears to read
PC 101 Lemon Street Police Station, found in ? Road
Is it vaguely possible that the number is in fact that of a Police Constable, and the address that of his Police Station?
Yes - I think that's very plausible; it looks like it's "PC" then a number, then either "H" or "HR", and sometimes a police station, identified by street name.
BugBear
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She has a second name on that death record. Not sure what it is. Bridges? Age on that possibly was 74.
Sarah Close, buried 17 April 1878, Manor Park Cemetery.
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Whitechapel Union Infirmary Register of Deaths, April 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-PHS6?i=181&cat=1249964
That leads to another deciphering question - what (the heck) is that second name?
Cause of death I make "Sarns[SP?] effusion on the brain, accentuated by a fall"
BugBear
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She has a second name on that death record. Not sure what it is. Bridges? Age on that possibly was 74.
Sarah Close, buried 17 April 1878, Manor Park Cemetery.
Annoyingly, the initial capital 'R' is quite clear, and a good match for other capital 'R' elsewhere on the page.
(I used this: https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search-names.pl)
rudge 23414
ridge 18298
ridges 770
radge 356
redge 249
rodge 106
rodges 86
radges 24
redges 8
roudge 3
rydges 2
rudges 2
ruddge 2
rundge 1
roodge 1
riddge 1
raedge 1
rydge
BugBear
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Whitechapel Union Infirmary Register of Deaths, April 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-PHS6?i=181&cat=1249964
That leads to another deciphering question - what (the heck) is that second name?
Cause of death I make "Sarns[SP?] effusion on the brain, accentuated by a fall"
BugBear
Are they online?
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The Police Constable is 150H from Coml St (= Commercial Street). Metropolitan Police Division H is Stepney.
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I see they are on familysearch but not going to spend ages and ages going from one page to the next trying to see if I can find it...
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She has a second name on that death record. Not sure what it is. Bridges? Age on that possibly was 74.
Sarah Close, buried 17 April 1878, Manor Park Cemetery.
I agree, the name is Bridges.
Look a bit further down the page to Barry, Catherine. The 'B' is almost exactly the same.
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I see they are on familysearch but not going to spend ages and ages going from one page to the next trying to see if I can find it...
You don't need to go from page to page. It is on the link jonw65 posted.
The Police Constable is 150H from Coml St (= Commercial Street). Metropolitan Police Division H is Stepney.
I was really hoping Bookbox would turn up :D
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The Police Constable is 150H from Coml St (= Commercial Street). Metropolitan Police Division H is Stepney.
Wow. Thank you. Whilst you were posting that, I'd found a couple more examples:
BugBear
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Cause of death I make "Sarns[SP?] effusion on the brain, accentuated by a fall"
Serous effusion on the brain.
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Cause of death I make "Sarns[SP?] effusion on the brain, accentuated by a fall"
Serous effusion on the brain.
I really wish I hadn't just googled that.
Eew.
BugBear
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Actually, I wonder if the middle name might be Bridget?
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Yes, I also think it's Bridget.
Here's another one, from a couple of pages further on, also looks like Bridges. This death (Bridget SHOULDER) was registered the same quarter in Whitechapel.
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Actually, I wonder if the middle name might be Bridget?
I'd agree, especially after comparing the B with that of Bolton Robert two lines lower.
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Yes, I also think it's Bridget.
Here's another one, from a couple of pages further on, also looks like Bridges. This death (Bridget SHOULDER) was registered the same quarter in Whitechapel.
Oh, very nice exploitation of a cross reference!
But it's annoying, because the only reason I'm chasing Sarah is to find a connection to the prior generation, and "Bridges" might just have been her MMN, whereas Bridget is only a personal name.
BugBear
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Actually, I wonder if the middle name might be Bridget?
Well done, Jen!
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But it's annoying, because the only reason I'm chasing Sarah is to find a connection to the prior generation, and "Bridges" might just have been her MMN, whereas Bridget is only a personal name.
Don't dismiss it out of hand. Mother's name?
Any possible link to Ann Close in reply #1 of your thread here? Mother's name Bridget. https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=803270.msg6613271#msg6613271
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But it's annoying, because the only reason I'm chasing Sarah is to find a connection to the prior generation, and "Bridges" might just have been her MMN, whereas Bridget is only a personal name.
Don't dismiss it out of hand. Mother's name?
Any possible link to Ann Close in reply #1 of your thread here? Mother's name Bridget. https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=803270.msg6613271#msg6613271
Certainly worth investigating. The records are very thin for this family - I'll take scraps, if scraps is all there is!
BugBear
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Sarah Close, buried 17 April 1878, Manor Park Cemetery.
The register entry for the burial of Sarah Close at Manor Park has the Coroner as informant, showing that there was an inquest into her death. The coroner’s report will not have survived for this district (Eastern Middlesex) at this date.
However, there was a short report of the inquest in the press, in the Illustrated Police News and the Shoreditch Observer, both 20 April 1878. Available online at the BritishNewspaperArchive or FindMyPast.
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Sarah Close, buried 17 April 1878, Manor Park Cemetery.
The register entry for the burial of Sarah Close at Manor Park has the Coroner as informant, showing that there was an inquest into her death. The coroner’s report will not have survived for this district (Eastern Middlesex) at this date.
In the spirit of "give a man a fish" where is that register (please) ?
However, there was a short report of the inquest in the press, in the Illustrated Police News and the Shoreditch Observer, both 20 April 1878. Available online at the BritishNewspaperArchive or FindMyPast.
I have a BNA sub, but due to her poverty, it didn't occur to me she might be in a newspaper!
Thank you (again)
BugBear
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And the trail isn't dead yet. The inquest mentions that Sarah Close attended the funeral of a relative,
on the 25th March.
So - what my best source for burial records?
I *think* I've got a solid line of connection between "my" family (Ann Martha Close), and Sarah, but it would be remiss of me not to check this.
BugBear
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Burials at Manor Park are available at DeceasedOnline. Free search, but full details require a subscription or purchased credits.
I think it will be impossible to find the 'other' death/burial without a surname. I see no other CLOSE death indexed in London in that quarter. Do you have other connected family surnames that you could search for?
ADDED - I see there is a Henry CLOSE aged 31 who died in St Olave (Jun Qtr 1d 129) - any use?
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Burials at Manor Park are available at DeceasedOnline. Free search, but full details require a subscription or purchased credits.
I think it will be impossible to find the 'other' death/burial without a surname. I see no other CLOSE death indexed in London in that quarter. Do you have other connected family surnames that you could search for?
ADDED - I see there is a Henry CLOSE aged 31 who died in St Olave (Jun Qtr 1d 129) - any use?
My "Close" data is very thin. None of the deaths I know of for the West/Close family match this date.
I will have to make a note of this potential cross-check, and continue on.
Thank you (very much) for your help and expertise.
BugBear