RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Ruskie on Sunday 11 November 18 22:30 GMT (UK)
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I don't suppose any of you would like to have a shot at finding information on one of my soldiers? No service record found and with the additional complication of very common name.
(If so I will start a new thread or ask a mod to split this one) ;) :)
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Always worth a try Ruskie, you never know what bits and bobs might be around :D
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Ruskie
Given the way you have helped others over the years, the very least we can do is “have a go” and try and help you.
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I hope so Janan. ;)
Aw, you're lovely Carole. :-*
I will dig out the details of my soldier and get back in a few minutes. :)
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Here we are .... :)
William Wright :P born 21 May 1893 (birth cert)
Address: 66 Angela St, West Derby Liverpool
Married by licence Jan 9th 1918 St Catherine’s Church, Edge Hill, Liverpool (marriage certificate)
Residence: 23 Handel St, Toxteth Park
Occupation: Shoeing Smith, Royal Field Artillery
I have photos of him in uniform, but know nothing of his service.
Any help is very much appreciated. Thank you.
(Added: I have requested that a moderator split this from Rosemary's thread) :)
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My maternal grandfather was also William Wright but b 1885 Liverpool died 1935. I sympathise with you as I know the problems with that surname.
Fingers crossed!!
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My maternal grandfather was also William Wright but b 1885 Liverpool died 1935. I sympathise with you as I know the problems with that surname.
Fingers crossed!!
That is an amazing co-incidence Carole! (this William is my OH's grandfather)
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I found this William Wright:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6030171
which seems to be the only "shoeing smith" and am happy to pay the £3.50 for the record. Will it tell me anything though? Regimental number for this man is 1512.
In my notes from years ago (source not noted unfortunately) I wrote that his "regimental number may be 56338, as this one is the only Shoeing Smith of this name in WW1. Medal Rolls index card gives little identifying information" ....
I think I have confused myself. :( :)
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Reg number 1512 turns up a William Wright on the MRI but he was in the Duke if Wellington’s (West Riding) Regt 1/1st Battalion RFA
No surviving service record. No death on cwgc
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William Wright 56338 served in Egypt from 2.4.1915 according to MRI but again so surviving service record and no death on cwgc
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Thanks for checking Carole. Would you say it is looking like the 56338 William is more likely?
I know "my" William survived (died 1963).
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He’s a possibility but I wouldn’t like to say he’s a certainty. Is there anything at all on the photo you have that could give any further clues?
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I will dig the photos out a bit later Carol in case they hold any clues. (I have to sign off shortly)
Thanks. :)
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Hi
William Wright at 80 Lovat Street was not marked up as an absent voter on the 1918 electoral register. I guess it means he'd been discharged from the army by then!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n0z/
John
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Don't forget that you can see the medal index cards for free on ancestry
So this is Wm Wright, 1512
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n10/
He has a Silver War Badge, he was discharged from 1/1 West Riding Bde. R.F.A. on 27.7.16 (which is quite a way back from the January 1918 marriage)
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Corporal William Wright 1512 enlisted 8 October 1914, was discharged 27 July 1916 through sicknes, no longer fit for service. Source Silver War Badge.
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What source is MRI, please?
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There is a medal index card for William on Ancestry, and two medal roll entries, the first for his “pair” of medals, the other for his 1915 Star. The number 56338 features on both, but the only other details are his date of disembarkation in the Egypt war zone: 2/4/1915 and rank in1915, Cpl. SS.
The Royal Artillery had a vast number of men and it is very hard to track a unit, but if you can find one arriving in Egypt on that date it would help.
(This might be better in the WW1 section of Armed Forces, to catch the real experts.)
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This might be better in the WW1 section of Armed Forces, to catch the real experts.
Ouch!
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Thank you very much to everyone for their valuable contributions. I note that Sarah has kindly split this from Rosemary's thread (thank you Sarah).
This might be better in the WW1 section of Armed Forces, to catch the real experts.
Ouch!
I think what Ainslie means is that if this was posted on the Armed Forces board, it might catch the eye of a larger number of experts. ;) ;D
I will ask Sarah (very nicely) if she would be kind enough to move it for me.
Jonw, I am impressed that you managed to locate the right William at 80 Lovat St! :)
I have found the photo I have of William in uniform, which may be related to his marriage as he is with his wife who is wearing a wedding band, and I think I can make out one on his finger too. He has two chevrons (with points facing up to the elbow) on his lower left sleeve but no other visible identifying badges or insignias. His right arm is hidden behind his wife. Definition on photo is not good and much of the dark uniform is in shadow.
This search was inspired by my OH and myself seeing the documentary "They Shall Not Grow Old" on Sunday. I realised that though we have this photo of my OH's grandfather hanging on our wall, we know nothing of his role in WW1 which I have always felt a bit sad about.
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I have tried researching the chevrons and some say they relate to years of service. As my William has two, does that rule him in or out to be William Wright 1512? :-\
As William 1512 was discharged in 1916, would it be feasible, or permissible, for him to continue wearing or to marry in uniform in 1918 if this is a wedding photo?
[Obviously trying to decide which of these chaps might be my William].
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From research I've done on my family, some of mine have more than 1 army number
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He would not have been able to wear uniform after discharge, perhaps if you post the photo it may provide more clues.
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Mvann that did cross my mind, but as this is such a common name I wasn't sure what to think. :-\
He would not have been able to wear uniform after discharge, perhaps if you post the photo it may provide more clues.
Yes Jebber, I did think that might be the best idea but I was trying to avoid doing so as I think I might struggle. (I'm not very techy) I will give it a shot, but there might be bit of a wait till I can get some help from family.
Not being able to wear the uniform after discharge seems to rule out William 1512.
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What I meant was that I had reached my own limits.
A
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A, you are right of course. Ruskie really needs Max, Jim, etc., to take a look at this.
They may at least be able to do some eliminating! The photo may help.
John
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Did I hear a call? Looking at 1512.
Two inverted chevrons lower sleeve indicates 6 years plus of good conduct so if during wartime, must indicate pre-war service. If a Corporal (a RA rank at that time not now) he should have two rank stripes also. Any sign on the photo?
1/1 West Riding Brigade RFA (proper title) was a pre war Territorial Force artillery brigade that took folk from Leeds and Bramley if that adds up? It became 245 Brigade RFA, April 1915 on his medakl card fits with the entry to France of the division it supported.
56338 has fewer clues. Acting Corporal means he may not have got the rank when photographed but he would have had a single one before that, don't know when though. He has only one number and his medal rolls are not Teritorial Force which implies he may have been serving when the war began.
Thus far it seems a toss-up between the two.
MaxD
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There is a medical record for a shoeing smith Wright with the number 56738, in 28 General Hospital (which was at Salonika) in December 1915 with Bronchitis. His number appears nowhere else so I am inclined to think the record has one digit incorrect and this is 56338, He was in 29 Div Ammunition Column which was in Gallipoli (and later Salonika from October 1915) but had arrived in Egypt in early April 1915 which adds up with 56338's date on his medal card. He seems then to not have been promoted (his rank was probably Driver) which might fit with only making it to Acting Corporal later.
Beginning to lean towards this man but, caveat follows, as all know, sans service records and sans other evidence, all speculation.
On the way from Alexandria to Salonika after Gallipoli, the vessel they were on SS Marquette was struck and sunk by a German submarine losing 107 men of the DAC among 167 total.
MaxD
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Back track. 56338's age is given as 33 is given in the medical record so ca. 1882 year of birth. Not him on that evidence. Pity - interesting story!
MaxD
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I thought you had cracked it, but have CWGC got that Wright recorded? Can’t find him so far.
A
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Did I give the impression he had died in the torpedoing? I shouldn't have done, as far as I can tell he survived the war.
Fo the avoidance of doubt my money is on 1512 although knowing his discharge date, I'd like to see the photo and run over the relative dates.
MaxD
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I jumped too soon.
A
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Let's see if this works .... ::)
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It's a miracle! Not quite as expected but a photo nevertheless. Apologies that quality is not too good - the original is not the clearest and I used my iphone to 'scan' this.
I hope seeing the photo helps, though apart from the chevrons and a tiny (possible) diamond on his epaulette nearest his shoulder I can't see any other embellishments which may give clues.
56338's service does sound eventful but as you say Max, the age being wrong is the clincher for this chap not being mine.There are no family stories that I am aware of, and I would think there may have been some interesting tales passed down to 56338's descendants. :)
If 1512 is my William and he was discharged in 1916 why is he wearing this uniform in this photo taken in 1918 or later? (maybe he was wearing it because he could rather than because he was allowed to?) On his m/c he said his occupation was "Shoeing Smith RFA" which it would not have been in 1918 if he had been discharged in 1916. :-\
Is it possible that neither 1512 or 56338 are the right William?
If it helps with the time line ... I know that my William was at home with his parents in the 1911 census, aged 18, and working at Walkers as a Brewer's Assistant.
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Is it possible that neither 1512 or 56338 are the right William?
Now we see the photo, almost certainly neither of them. 6 years plus service, no rank badges, still serving in 1918 plus. Any one of the many Drivers in the RFA who became a Shoeing Smith but it is not recorded on his records.
Not sure we are any nearer except having eliminated two!
MaxD
PS I was secretly hoping it would be the 56338 man with the interesting story!
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That is disappointing but thank you anyway Max. Though frustrating, I suppose it is just as valuable to eliminate the wrong chaps.
You think it is possible he was a driver who ended up being a Shoeing Smith? (might that be seen as a logical progression?) When I was browsing the records I saw lots of 'Gunners' and 'Drivers'. :-\ I suppose he must have learned 'on the job' so to speak but from what I have gleaned he had no previous experience with horses - I suppose the men just did what they had to do.
It seems like it might be an impossible task to find the wright William. ;) There are rather a lot of William Wrights. ::)
[I was hoping he was 56338 too Max].
Added: I did wonder if there was any significance in the fact that William married by licence? Maybe he was on leave and had limited time ...
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Yes that is what I meant in my post, he (whoever) is listed as driver (which means horses) and being trained at some stage and qualifying as a shoeing smith absolutely normal, not a normal progression for the gunners. (A brewers assistant may well have been involved with the brewer's dray horses?)
MaxD
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Can I ask Max, if William was in the army in January 1918, but was discharged before the end of the war, is it certain that he would have received a SWB and be somewhere on the rolls? Or is it not certain?
John
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Thanks Max. I hadn't considered that he may have had prior experience with brewery horses, but that makes perfect sense.
In the film "They Shall Not Grow Old" they talked about how it was very common for the lads to be asked if anyone had knowledge of, or experience with, various things, and they were syphoned off to do that if required. That may have been the case with William.
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John
If he was discharged under the regulations applicable to a SWB it would be entered on his medal record and there was a separate record too. These were not among those records lost in WW2. If he was discharged at the end of a term of service, and it did happen, then no SWB and if his record was lost then only the medal records would remain.
The only William Wrights who are definitely identified as shoeing smiths are those we have eliminated.
MaxD
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Thank you, Max.
John
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Is this one a possibility?
William Wright RFA Service numbers 911, 675158, 728389
Rank Driver,Driver,Farrier Sergeant
Jan
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Our man has no rank in his 1918 photo and although Farrier is a natural progression from shoeing smith, for some, he would have had to have been promoted 3 steps up the ladder for it to be the Farrier Sergeant. No record though so that has to be opinion.
MaxD
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Thanks for your continued interest Jan. :)
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Thanks for moving this thread Dawn.
:)