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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Rochdalian on Wednesday 14 November 18 05:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rochdalian on Wednesday 14 November 18 05:42 GMT (UK)
I have snipped and attached a section from the register of St James Haslingden, this is how I read it.
'Mary child of Christopher Parkinson otherwise Horabin of Constabligh'
I think Horabin is a surname and Constabligh a place but I don't know what it means.
Could someone help please.
Cheers
Bob
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Mckha489 on Wednesday 14 November 18 05:49 GMT (UK)
Someone else has had this problem re Constabligh.

Yes I agree itís Christopher Parkinson, but heís sometimes known as Christopher Horabin. And he is from Constabligh.  See here. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n13/
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 14 November 18 05:50 GMT (UK)
I think possibly, adding a yr may help researchers?

Annie

Crossed posts but will leave as is  ;)
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 14 November 18 05:51 GMT (UK)
I read it as Horabin being a surname and an alias.

The last word is presumably a place name - (where he resides).

Do other entries on the page follow the same format (with the place name at the end of the entry)?

Added: I see the entry above has "of ....placename").
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: PaulineJ on Wednesday 14 November 18 07:58 GMT (UK)
I think the place will be Constable Lee (Rawtenstall)

Modern postcode BB4 8HT

Pauline
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rochdalian on Wednesday 14 November 18 22:05 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your input it more or less clarifiys what I was thinking. 
Annie the date is on the bottom of the attachment ;)
Still I'd like to get into his mind about why he would be using an alternate surname or alias.  Mind you I can't find his marriage but I can find one for a Christopher Horrobin that fits very nicely and meets all the criteria, but more research needed I feel :)

Thanks again

Bob
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 00:04 GMT (UK)
I think the place will be Constable Lee (Rawtenstall)

Modern postcode BB4 8HT

Pauline

Agree.
There were Horrobins in nearby Holcombe parish. (There's a Horrobin family on "The Archers" - they are ne'er-do-wells, which is why the name stuck in my mind.)
The alias may have been to distinguish him from other men called Christopher Parkinson. It may have been his mother's name. He may have been ilegitimate, or son of a dead father who had later taken his stepfather's surname.



Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 00:29 GMT (UK)
Still I'd like to get into his mind about why he would be using an alternate surname or alias.  Mind you I can't find his marriage but I can find one for a Christopher Horrobin that fits very nicely and meets all the criteria, but more research needed I feel :)

You need to have an open mind regarding variations in spellings i.e. if what you've found with what seems to me a very uncommon forename & surname in the correct area then the likelihood of this being your man is very high.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 00:32 GMT (UK)
Another Mary Parkinson/Horabin was baptised in 1720. A Mary Parkinson was buried in 1719.
2 Parkinson baptisms Elizabeth 1724 and Christopher 1726.
Agnes Horabin baptism 1729.

Is it the marriage to Elizabeth Rothwell in 1712 that you think is a possibility?

There may have been 2 men named Christopher Parkinson in Constable Lee. Constable Lee is in Rawtenstall.

I counted 8 others with aliases in the same baptism register.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 00:35 GMT (UK)
You need to have an open mind regarding variations in spellings i.e. if what you've found with what seems to me a very uncommon forename & surname in the correct area then the likelihood of this being your man is very high.

Annie

Christopher was not an uncommon name.  It was a more popular name for boys born in the district 1670-1690 than Charles, Peter or Samuel. It wasn't far behind William (William of Orange was the enemy at one point until he invaded and became the glorious liberator.) Most boys were named John, James, Henry or Richard - there were hundreds of them.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 01:43 GMT (UK)
MS, I stand corrected ;D

Not too sure if this may help re change of surname?

"The name Horabin is from the ancient Anglo-Saxon culture of the Britain and comes from the name Rabin or Robin, which are pet forms of the personal name Robert. The name is preceded the Old English prefix har, which means gray. Hence, the surname Horabin literally means gray Rabin or gray Robin"

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 02:21 GMT (UK)

Not too sure if this may help re change of surname?

"The name Horabin is from the ancient Anglo-Saxon culture of the Britain and comes from the name Rabin or Robin, which are pet forms of the personal name Robert. The name is preceded the Old English prefix har, which means gray. Hence, the surname Horabin literally means gray Rabin or gray Robin"

Annie

That's interesting.
It was a more common surname than I imagined. I got hundreds of hits on LANOPC.
It was mostly Horrabin in Holcombe, next-door to Haslingden but also Horribein,  Orribin and
Or(r)ibein there. Holcombe registers on LANOPC begin 1730s and there were Horrobin entries from then on. Surprisingly there were none in Edenfield, another adjacent place.

10 spelling variations in Whalley parish. They were in Whalley by 1550s. An interesting baptism there is this:
1669 John Parkinson, illegitimate son of William Horrobin, supposed father and Elizabeth Parkinson.
It may be coincidence, Parkinson being such a common name.

Horrobins were numerous in Bolton parish, a few miles south of Haslingden, and in Deane, adjacent to Bolton.
Other places they turned up in 17thC were Prestwich (geographically a large parish), Radcliffe, Chorley, Blackburn, Padiham, Clitheroe and Brindle.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 02:34 GMT (UK)
MS,

It is interesting & more interesting with what you've dug up!

Not a name I've ever encountered but as we like to try & help others when/where/if we can, it's interesting (at least for myself) to find things out even if it's of no significance to myself, just the general interest in genealogy & why we're on here really as it all adds to our knowledge or in this case...the lack of  :D

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 02:40 GMT (UK)

Is it the marriage to Elizabeth Rothwell in 1712 that you think is a possibility?


Elizabeth's abode was Graine. There was no abode for Christopher.
There was a baptism of a Christopher Horabin at St. James, Haslingden in 1692.
Son of John Horrabin.
Abode; Priestentakes.
Notes: BTs has Christopher son of John Horrabin of Grayne
Register: Baptisms 1683-1711; page 15.
Grane is in the west of Haslingden, between 2 and 5 miles from Constable Lee which is on the east side of Haslingden. Grane is bleak moorland.
 Priestentakes isn't a place I recognise.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 03:03 GMT (UK)
In a word, yes!

I think you may have misinterpreted my contribution?...the combination of both forename & surname (to me) would be unique i.e. my wording may have been wrong in "what seems to me a very uncommon forename & surname" (combined) was what I was trying to emphasise.

The amount of people with that surname is quite a surprise as it's not a 'run-of-the-mill' surname & certainly doesn't shout 'English' or 'British' for that matter i.e. it would be interesting to find it's true origin arriving in England if that's the case?

Annie

Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 03:10 GMT (UK)

It is interesting & more interesting with what you've dug up!

Not a name I've ever encountered but as we like to try & help others when/where/if we can, it's interesting (at least for myself) to find things out even if it's of no significance to myself, just the general interest in genealogy & why we're on here really as it all adds to our knowledge or in this case...the lack of  :D

Annie

The surname is familiar to me because I'm an "Archers" addict.

What I find interesting is that not one Horrobin apparently crossed the River Irwell and made it to the village of Edenfield from either direction. They preferred to remain to the west of the river. If they travelled it would have been via packhorse routes over the moors, avoiding boggy ground in the river valley.
I didn't know that har meant grey. It's used in weather forecasts occasionally. I think it's a type of fog. Fog is Old Norse for thick.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 03:24 GMT (UK)
Being Scottish, I know the word as 'Haar' but yes fog/mist & possibly where the saying 'Scotch Mist' was derived from? & known to me in the 'Highlands' of Scotland, a common occurrence.

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 03:26 GMT (UK)
In a word, yes!

I think you may have misinterpreted my contribution?...the combination of both forename & surname (to me) would be unique i.e. my wording may have been wrong in "what seems to me a very uncommon forename & surname" (combined) was what I was trying to emphasise.


I'll admit - there were very few Christopher Horrobins. Most were John. They didn't like Charles at all. Not surprising since there were a lot of Horrobins in Bolton which was a Parliamentarian town in the Civil War.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 03:39 GMT (UK)
I find it very interesting when we come across names which are/were not common surnames (to ourselves) in research but surprised a name like that would be on 'The Archers', not something I listen to but my g/mother was a huge fan when I was a child as there was no TV in her house i.e. the radio was her only way of communicating with the outside world...living in the 'Highlands' of Scotland & even a Radio was a luxury as late as the 1970s!  :o

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 04:24 GMT (UK)

The amount of people with that surname is quite a surprise as it's not a 'run-of-the-mill' surname & certainly doesn't shout 'English' or 'British' for that matter i.e. it would be interesting to find it's true origin arriving in England if that's the case?

Annie

A scout around various websites on name origins:
One says it was first recorded in Lancashire. This website mentions Paisley, England  ??? further down the page. As far as I'm aware there is no place called Paisley in England. If it exists it must be so tiny that hardly anyone knows about it.
Another cites earliest records in Cambridgeshire and London + other places.
A third claims the surname is from a little place in Derbyshire.

A variation is Orbine.
Another derivation theory is a Norse word, without H, meaning scarred leg.

Census statistics show Lancashire was the county where most Horrobins lived. Over 50% one year.
The vast majority live in England. (Well if they wouldn't cross a little river to a village less than 5 miles away they were unlikely to be enthusiastic about a sea-crossing. ;D)

No wonder it's an unfamiliar name to a Scottish-based person. I can't recall ever having met one in real life. However I may have walked past their graves.


Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 05:02 GMT (UK)
This is a byway -  nothing to do with the enquiry.
I looked up Horrobin on Imperial War Museum Lives of the First World War website. 89 listed. Several in Loyal North Lancs, the regiment my granddad served in. There was a Canadian Expeditionary Force contingent, several from New Zealand and a few from Australia. 9 were in RFC/RAF. Only 1 was in the Navy.
The life story page of the few I looked at had no details. Information can be added until March next year. I only discovered the website on Saturday, through a link on here.
 Yesterday I found another website, A Street Near You which has an interactive map showing home addresses of over 400,000 who died in WW1. One was the house in which I was born.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 05:08 GMT (UK)
"A scout around various websites on name origins:
One says it was first recorded in Lancashire. This website mentions Paisley, England"

I don't see any on scotlandspeople site, not to say there weren't any, just not recorded?

"No wonder it's an unfamiliar name to a Scottish-based person. I can't recall ever having met one in real life. However I may have walked past their graves"

I may be Scottish based but my research has taken me all over the globe i.e. my location has nothing to do with surnames I've encountered on my genealogy journeys :D

I have to say though, there will be 000s + names I've never encountered, well, not consciously & certainly not on SP which I frequent  ;D

I still think this was a 'foreign' name which landed on our shores but...from where  :-\

Add..Got the red alert...
"The life story page of the few I looked at had no details. Information can be added until March next year. I only discovered the website on Saturday, through a link on here.
 Yesterday I found another website, A Street Near You which has an interactive map showing home addresses of over 400,000 who died in WW1. One was the house in which I was born"

Wow...amazing what we find!

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 06:04 GMT (UK)
"A scout around various websites on name origins:
One says it was first recorded in Lancashire. This website mentions Paisley, England"

I don't see any on scotlandspeople site, not to say there weren't any, just not recorded?

House of Names website  https://www.houseofnames.com/horrobin-family-crest
"Migration of the Horrobin family to the New World and Oceana
Horrobin settlers in U.S. in 20thC
John Horrobin who arrived in America from Paisley, England in 1906"

Perhaps he didn't stay long in Scotland. Maybe there is a Paisley in England that I've never heard of. Most likely the writer put England instead of Scotland or Britain.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rochdalian on Thursday 15 November 18 06:08 GMT (UK)
Wow, you get dragged out to do some shopping and come back and the whole thread has exploded :o  Well not exactly but I have really enjoyed reading the discussion between Annie and Maiden Stone.
And yes, the marriage I was looking at was Christopher Horrobin and Elizabeth Rothwell.

Just for general interest I have five Christopher Parkinson's, 39 Parkinson's overall then they marry into the Hoyle family, 27 of those, all around Haslingden.  Then one of the female Hoyles headed south to Rochdale and married a Dearden, and that is another story ;)

Bob
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 15 November 18 06:26 GMT (UK)

I still think this was a 'foreign' name which landed on our shores but...from where  :-\


Anglia? Saxony? Around 1,400 years ago. Holcombe is a Saxon settlement.  Alternatively Scandinavia. Plenty of Norse around the area too. Whalley is ancient. Horrobins or rather the people who became Horrobins, might have been in those places for a thousand years before their names appeared in parish registers.
Staffordshire is another county which had a fair few. Some of those 89 soldiers were in Staffordshire regiments.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 November 18 07:00 GMT (UK)
Apologies as my earlier searches were OPRs rather than Statutory records!

"John Horrobin who arrived in America from Paisley, England in 1906"

It would be interesting to find out more info. on him as his family could possibly be researched in Paisley with enough info?

Unfortunately I don't have time to search further for the moment but to search on scotlandspeople.gov.uk (1855 until 2017), I haven't gone through everything but they're there!

No quotations...enter in surname box **r*obin* then to the right choose the option wildcards allowed which brings up a few (not too many) & with variants.

How interesting the thread has been  ;)

Annie
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: andrewalston on Thursday 15 November 18 12:18 GMT (UK)
I find it very interesting when we come across names which are/were not common surnames (to ourselves) in research but surprised a name like that would be on 'The Archers'

My mum was friendly with the daughter of civil engineering contractor Leonard Fairclough, and she was told that when the writers needed a lot of character names in 1960 for a certain soap opera, they visited a cemetery in Manchester.

Obviously the name joined up with the occupation in the back of someone's brain, and a long-running character appeared.

So an accident that the name came to be used, but the occupational link was probably a little less accidental.
Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Footo on Thursday 15 November 18 20:38 GMT (UK)

Is it the marriage to Elizabeth Rothwell in 1712 that you think is a possibility?


Elizabeth's abode was Graine. There was no abode for Christopher.
There was a baptism of a Christopher Horabin at St. James, Haslingden in 1692.
Son of John Horrabin.
Abode; Priestentakes.
Notes: BTs has Christopher son of John Horrabin of Grayne
Register: Baptisms 1683-1711; page 15.
Grane is in the west of Haslingden, between 2 and 5 miles from Constable Lee which is on the east side of Haslingden. Grane is bleak moorland.
 Priestentakes isn't a place I recognise.

Priestentakes is I assume Priestentax which was above Heap Clough just of Grane Road - there is a quarry up that way.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/479679

Barbara


Title: Re: Looking for interpretation of text in parish register please
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 16 November 18 17:09 GMT (UK)

Priestentakes is I assume Priestentax which was above Heap Clough just of Grane Road - there is a quarry up that way.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/479679

Barbara

Priestentax and Far Priestentax are on the map Lancashire LXXI (includes Haslingden; Oswaldtwistle) surveyed 1844-5.
 National Library of Scotland Maps
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343976