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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Forfarian on Wednesday 14 November 18 20:57 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone suggest what Isabelle's relationship and marital status in the attached extract are please?
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She is married and has a son and daughter and a boarder
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Looks as if she is mother of the children, but can't read the occupation.
Odd that they put the boarder first - usually the head of the household goes first, male or female. :-\
Wiggy :-\
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Can't make out what is crossed out
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Are they part of the larger household?
It looks like ‘Apartments’ or ‘Appointments’ - they first might make more sense but not sure if any would be right.
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Odd that they put the boarder first - usually the head of the household goes first, male or female. :-\
I think you are only seeing a snip of the full page. The head of the household just isn’t visible here.
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I wondered about that, but the line above the boarder looks thicker as if it is the end of a different household above. :-\ :-\
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Yes, it's only part of the page. I did not wish to fall foul of infringement of copyright so only included part of the household.
It's only the crossed out words that I cannot decipher - the rest, including the other members of the household, is perfectly clear.
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The whole 1911 entry is here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71D-4HF
Household
Joseph Short, Head
Alice Mary Short, Wife
Alfred John Short, Son
Alice Rosina Short, Daughter
Doris May Short, Daughter
Thomas Simmons, Boarder
Isabelle Knight, ? 32
Edgar Leslie Knight, Son 3
Phillis May Knight, Daughter 1
The crossed out entry is very difficult to read, the best I could do that makes any sense is "Open tenant" which could be intended to explain the relationship of the Knight family to the head who is Mr Short, as "boarder" does for the name above. Not that I have ever heard or seen that phrase!
The other crossed out bit just looks like the age originally put in the Male column which is frequently seen.
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Just wondering if it could be something like Annuitant with a strike out line through the second letter
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Added - can't be - I see it's in the relationship to head :-[
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I wondered about that, but the line above the boarder looks thicker as if it is the end of a different household above. :-\ :-\
There is a bolder line after 5 entries and then 10 entries on the census pages. They are all like that in 1911.
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I wondered about that, but the line above the boarder looks thicker as if it is the end of a different household above. :-\ :-\
There is a bolder line after 5 entries and then 10 entries on the census pages. They are all like that in 1911.
Thanks for that - will try to remember for future reference. ;)
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Was the ‘long s’ still used around 1911? I thought the word could possibly have been ‘assistant’ with the second letter of the word being a long s
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Was the ‘long s’ still used around 1911? I thought the word could possibly have been ‘assistant’ with the second letter of the word being a long s
I did briefly wonder about that, but a female cook as an assistant to a carter seems a bit odd.
Also odd, though nothing do to with deciphering, is that the son's birth is in FreeBMD but not in the GRO online index; I can't be sure of having found the daughter's birth; I can't find the marriage; and I have no idea where the husband was. Or why the information about Isabelle's marriage and number of children has been crossed out.
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There’s an index-only baptism for Edgar Leslie Knight at Stafford (surprisingly) on 19 March 1908, son of George Henry Knight & Isabel.
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What was Isabelle’s maiden name?
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There’s an index-only baptism for Edgar Leslie Knight at Stafford (surprisingly) on 19 March 1908, son of George Henry Knight & Isabel.
Yes, I found that too, and it doesn't seem to make sense if he was born in Bristol.
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What was Isabelle’s maiden name?
I don't know. That is one of the things I would like to find out but as the birth index entry is missing from the GRO online index I have no way of knowing it for certain in the short term.
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Not sure if it is better or worse.... ;D
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There’s an index-only baptism for Edgar Leslie Knight at Stafford (surprisingly) on 19 March 1908, son of George Henry Knight & Isabel.
Yes, I found that too, and it doesn't seem to make sense if he was born in Bristol.
There doesn’t seem to be a separate Edgar which this could relate to, and the date fits well with his birthdate, 26 February 1908.
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Not sure if it is better or worse.... ;D
Neither am I :)
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It doesn’t help here, but. Did you know that if the GRO indexers couldn’t read the surname it is entered as ..., so if you cant find someone, it is worth trying
As shown for females 1908 +/- 2 yrs
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A published tree shows her as Isabel/Isabella Perry (with photo) with parents William and Mercy and spouse, George Henry Knight no details.
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Did you know that if the GRO indexers couldn’t read the surname it is entered as ...
Yes.
But FreeBMD indexes ten births including Edgar Leslie Knight with the same reference - Bristol, 1908, June quarter, Vol 6a, Page 5 - and all 10 are missing altogether from the births index on the GRO web site. Not just the mothers' maiden surnames, everything. I think the GRO must have missed a page out when they were indexing that book.
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A published tree shows her as Isabel/Isabella Perry (with photo) with parents William and Mercy and spouse, George Henry Knight no details.
Published where? (Not that I would trust any published tree, but it might be a starting point.)
Still can't find a marriage, however, so maybe they were married overseas. Or maybe not at all.
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Birth
Edgar Leslie Perry b Bristol 1908 mmn Knight
Note Occasional Copy A (not sure of that)
Tree Published Ancestry
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Birth 1910 Bristol
Phyllis May Perry mmn Knight
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Isabel Perry, 23 b Coleford Somerset, is in service in Bristol in 1901.
RG13/2376/38/15.
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Birth
Edgar Leslie Perry b Bristol 1908 mmn Knight
Note Occasional Copy A (not sure of that)
Ah, now that does look interesting.
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Marriage 1918 Bristol
Isabelle Perry and William J Mountford
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I think you've cracked it! Thank you.
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Isabel Perry, 23 b Coleford Somerset, is in service in Bristol in 1901.
RG13/2376/38/15.
Isabella Perry was baptised 1 Dec 1878 at Coleford, Somerset.
Parents: William (labourer) & Mary, of Coleford.
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Birth reg (per GRO index): Phyllis May Perry, mmn Knight, Sep qtr 1910 Bristol 6a 43.
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Isabella Perry was baptised 1 Dec 1878 at Coleford, Somerset.
Parents: William (labourer) & Mary, of Coleford.
Mary or Mercy?
Mercy Dawson married James Button in Frome in 1851.
Philip John Button, mmn Dawson, born in Frome in 1869.
Mercy Button married William Perry in Frome in 1873.
Alice Kate, Isabella and Henry Charles Perry, mmn Dawson, born in Frome in 1873, 1875 and 1878 respectively.
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Best I can make out is "Apartments"
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That was my original thought and it looks even more like that as posted.
Perhaps she and her children had separate accommodation whereas the boarder may have lived more as a family member.
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Have to say, great work folks on all accounts as it was a very difficult one for sure, well done all!
Forfarian,
This one really amazed me after looking at your initial post, how much interest/time/effort/conclusion went into this!
Annie
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Did you know that if the GRO indexers couldn’t read the surname it is entered as ..., so if you cant find someone, it is worth trying
Thank you Mckha...I didn't know that but very useful, not only for myself but others too!
Thankfully, I haven't had any queries (yet) with GRO listings :D
Annie
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Have to say, great work folks on all accounts as it was a very difficult one for sure, well done all!
This one really amazed me after looking at your initial post, how much interest/time/effort/conclusion went into this!
Indeed. Thanks to everyone who helped with this.
This is for a friend whose family it is. I'll have to consult with him before I take it any further, as in ordering certificates etc. Or attempting to find the errant father.