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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Lisa Knight on Thursday 15 November 18 20:48 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am a beginner on ancestry and i am trying to find anything on my grandad (my dads dad) he never married my nan andis not on my dads birth certificate, i know he was apparently born in conwy wales and was a private in the welsh fusiliers ww1 the numbers on his war badge are 150466 and 201612, his name is hugh jones and he registered as a dentist in 1925 Manchester uk but that is all i know, without any info on his DOB or date of death i am struggling to find any family from his side.
Is there anybody out there that could help or point me in the right direction
Thanks in advance
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
A bit of info from Military records which shows his year of birth as 1897.
Hugh Jones
Rank - Pte
Birth Date - 1897
Residence Place - Old Station House Port Dens
Military Service Region - Wales
Enlistment date - 11 Dec 1915
Discharge Date - 24 Jan 1918
Service Number - 201612
Regiment - R.W.F.
JJ
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There is a Thomas H G Jones living in Neath Glamorganshire born 1895.
He is with a wife and a closed record.
This is the only one I can see on the 1939 register.
The above is the Thomas H G Jones who married Gladys C Nutsam in 1936 Neath reg district
Moderator comment: edited to remove details from the 1939 register. You may only post information from a free search.
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Thankyou so much that is a huge help to me, i have been completely stuck on this think i am getting somewhere now
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This is the Thomas H G Jones I found in the 1939 register.
1901
William Jones 44 commercial traveller
Elizabeth Jones 34
Anne M Jones 10
Thomas H G Jones 6 Aberdare, Glamorgan
Esther Parry 23
A link to the Dental registers. Sorry i don't know how to shorten it. :)
https://bda.org/museum/enquiries/PublishingImages/-and-research/was-your-ancestor-a-dentist-factsheet.pdf
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The above is the Thomas H G Jones who married Gladys C Nutsam in 1936 Neath reg district
freebmd shows her surname as Jutsum
Births March qtr 1900
Gladys Cossins Jutsum Neath 11a 883
No children found
Deaths
Thomas H G Jones aged 55 December 1951 Neath 8B 400
Deaths Gladys Cossins Jones 75 born 14 Dec 1899 Death reg Dec 1974 Neath
Vol 27 Page 1916
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Probate entry
Thomas Henry George Jones of 109 London Rd Neath died 26.10.1951 at Neath General Hospital
Probate to widow Gladys Cossins Jones - effects £15,848 5s 7d
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Where/what is 'Port Dens'??
Annette
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A bit of info from Military records which shows his year of birth as 1897.
Hugh Jones
Rank - Pte
Birth Date - 1897
Residence Place - Old Station House Port Dens
Military Service Region - Wales
Enlistment date - 11 Dec 1915
Discharge Date - 24 Jan 1918
Service Number - 201612
Regiment - R.W.F.
A transcription from Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923, images available on Fold3 website.
Debra :)
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....... the numbers on his war badge are 150466 and 201612
What you have is his Silver War Badge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_War_Badge
The only extra information on that record is that he didn't serve overseas.
Debra :)
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Where/what is 'Port Dens'??
Annette
Port dens is north wales,
I found an old photo that says nancy jones port diorwick on the back x
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Probate entry
Thomas Henry George Jones of 109 London Rd Neath died 26.10.1951 at Neath General Hospital
Probate to widow Gladys Cossins Jones - effects £15,848 5s 7d
Thankyou i dont think this is him, my dad was born in salford 1942 the same area the dental practice, i remember my dad saying he lived into his 70's but unfortunatly he can't tell me anything else as he is very poorly atm and has dementia too :-(
From the post by dundee i found a death record om ancestry which confirms his birth date 15 feb 1897
And died march 1971
Thankyou everyone for your help, i just need a census record that may show me who nancy is and possible parents
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His birth. Aberdare is 4 miles south west of Merthyr Tydfil:
JONES, THOMAS HENRY GEORGE mmn PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 796
Sister on the 1901?:
JONES, ANNIE MARY mmn PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 657
Marriage possibility:
Mar 1886 Merthyr T 11a 598
JONES William
PHILLIPS Elizabeth
On the 1911:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXF-9M1
Jamjar
Added, just realised that it a Hugh we are looking for, so how do the folks on these censuses fit in?
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his birth date 15 feb 1897
On GRO UK, there are 14 Hugh Jones registered in the Jan Feb March quarter of 1897. They are divided between England and Wales.
Jamjar
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died march 1971
March 1971
JONES Hugh 15Feb1897 Salford 10f 1498
Won’t this have his father’s name, at least?
Jamjar
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Re. Nancy Jones, Port Diorwick ?? - again, the place can't be found with this spelling but discovered there is a Port Dinorwic in Caernarvonshire which is the English for 'Y Felinheli'.
Aside from the problem here of the common surname Jones, 'Nancy' can be a pet name for Ann/Anne/Annie.
This is going to be a tricky one.
Annette
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died march 1971
March 1971
JONES Hugh 15Feb1897 Salford 10f 1498
Won’t this have his father’s name, at least?
Jamjar
This seems to be the right record but only says jones. Hopefully this was his dads name thankyou,
Managed to get another name from my dad(a good visit at the hospital) as his brother griver/iver and nancy was his sister
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Re. Nancy Jones, Port Diorwick ?? - again, the place can't be found with this spelling but discovered there is a Port Dinorwic in Caernarvonshire which is the English for 'Y Felinheli'.
Aside from the problem here of the common surname Jones, 'Nancy' can be a pet name for Ann/Anne/Annie.
This is going to be a tricky one.
Annette
My dad has managed to confirm port dinorwick I must have read the back of the photo wrong as it is very old amd faded
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Free search on familysearch:
1911 - Llanfair is Gaer, Port Dinorwic
Mary Ann Jones 47 Marr. born Bangor
Ivor Jones 18 born Llanrieg
Hugh Jones 14 born Bangor
Annie Jones 10 ditto
Got to go out now but perhaps someone else can find them on 1901 census with hopefully the father.
Annette
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Free search on familysearch:
1911 - Llanfair is Gaer, Port Dinorwic
Mary Ann Jones 47 Marr. born Bangor
Ivor Jones 18 born Llanrieg
Hugh Jones 14 born Bangor
Annie Jones 10 ditto
Got to go out now but perhaps someone else can find them on 1901 census with hopefully the father.
Annette
Thankyou for all your help i have plenty to be getting on with now
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Rightie hoo, I reckon it’s this family, as it has a brother IVOR and sister ANNIE. Also a brother Richard. What I can’t get is them all with the same mmn. I thought ROBERTS, but the only birth for Hugh has a Dec quarter.
JONES, HUGH GLYN mmn ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in CONWAY Volume 11B Page 425
1901:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9BC-9HV
1911:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VF-TGJ
There isn’t a lot to choose from with areas close to Conwy and Bangor is the nearest.
Jamjar
Added: I see Annette thinks so, also. ;D
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4PYL-12M
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I did a search on FreeBMD for William Owen Jones and Mary Ann Roberts and there were no hits.
Now this is what I had thought was the correct mmn for Hugh:
Marriages Jun 1890 Bangor 11b 804
JONES William Owen
WILLIAMS Mary Ann
JONES, HUGH mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 447
JONES, HUGH GEORGE mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 458
JONES, IVOR mmn WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 11B Page 449
There are several choices for Annie.
Jamjar
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Having flicked through the thread I'm assuming that we are satisfied we looking at Hugh Jones, Old Station, Port Dinorwic, parents Mary Ann Jones/William O Jones.
On that basis. His father William O Jones was a Chief Engineer of a steamship called 'Clwyd' and perished when she sank after a collision in the Irish Sea in Dec 1917.
See column 3 under Portdinorwic
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4245756/4245760
Here's a welsh language news report of the collision (right hand column), followed by a quick translation
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4016360/4016364/23/
"On Monday the remains of Mr William O Jones, The Station were bought home for burial. He died on a small boat off Douglas, Isle of Man. It appears that his ship was in a collision with another and sank. The crew went into a lifeboat and they were at sea for a while before being rescued. He was about 50 years old and leaves a wife, daughter and three sons to mourn him. He was buried at Llanddeiniolen on Wednesday morning."
See also column 2 under Portdinorwic
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4244124/4244130/62/jones%20AND%20skerries%20AND%20barrow
There might be more, esp about death of William Owen. Here's the main page
https://newspapers.library.wales/
Other snippets I have picked up in a newspaper that is not on the online site:
Hugh Jones
Pte Hughie Jones, youngest son of Mr and Mrs R Jones, Old Station House, has been lying seriously ill in hospital in Norwich for many weeks. We understand that he is now a little better. (Caernarfon & Denbigh Herald 19/10/1917)
Richard Jones
Whilst on a voyage to Australia the steamer Ballarat was torpedoed by a German submarine. Mr Richard Jones, eldest son of Mr and Mrs William O Jones, Old Station was a wireless operator on board the ill fated vessel. We are glad to learn that he is safe. (Caernarfon & Denbigh Herald 11/5/1917)
Ballarat, 11,120grt, defensively-armed, 25 April 1917, 24 miles S by W from Wolf Rock, torpedoed without warning and sunk by submarine
(Website usually indicates if there was a loss of life.)
Following on from the info re death of William Owen Jones. He was buried, aged 47yrs, in the parish churchyard of the adjoining parish namely Llanddeiniolen on Dec 26 1917 (Register is on FindMyPast) Mary Ann Jones is in the register buried 8th March 1922 aged 58yrs. I have both MI books for that churchyard. I cannot see an entry for either under full name or by address.
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Regarding Hugh Jones as Pte 201612 RWF whose Silver War Badge (see link below) you have.
Regimental numbering is quite complex and evolved as the war went on. I'm therefore not going to fully explain the full ins and outs. Ditto enlistment/conscription.
This number is from the 4th Battalion, Territorial Force, RWF numbering sequence. Although his Silver War Badge (SWB) entry (referred to elsewhere in the thread) states he enlisted 11 12 1915 this was in fact when he voluntarily attested under the Derby scheme. He was not actually called up until around the first week of March 1916. The training unit for the 4th Bn was the 3rd 4thBn so he'd have initially gone to them. As stated his SWB Roll entry states no overseas entry. Given the newspaper article re being in hospital in Norwich then it is my opinion that, following training, he has gone to 2nd 4th Bn which was stationed in East Anglia (for defence purposes in case of an invasion)
3/4th, 3/5th, 3/6th and 3/7th Battalions
Formed in Wrexham, Flint, Carnarvon and Newtown in March, May (3/6th) and June (3/7th) 1915 respectively.
8 April 1916 : became 4th – 7th Reserve Battalions.
1 September 1916 : 4th absorbed the 5th, 6th and 7th Bns, in the Welsh Reserve Brigade at Oswestry. Moved in March 1918 to Kinmel (Rhyl) and in July 1918 to Herne Bay in Kent.
2/4th (Denbighshire) Battalion
Formed at Wrexham in September 1914 as a home service (“Second line”) unit. Moved to join Welsh Division at Northampton on 22 November 1914. Moved in December 1914 to Cambridge.
22 April 1915 : attached to 203rd Brigade, 68th Division at Northampton. Moved to Bedford in July 1915, Aldeburgh in November 1916 and Henham Park (Halesworth) in May 1917. Finally moved to Yarmouth in October 1917.
March 1918 : disbanded.
Silver War Badge = https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/records-of-the-silver-war-badge/