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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: River Tyne Lass on Sunday 18 November 18 10:27 GMT (UK)
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My Great Grandparents Simon Peter and Bridget Conroy nee McCabe had 10 children. I have been able to discover these in the baptism records at the Churches they attended. Not all their children survived to adulthood - I have also been able to find their death entries in Church records.
However, I have not been able to find a death entry or registration for their son Thomas and I have not been able to find him on a census either. I presume he must have died young - but when and where?
What I would like to know is if anyone has any ideas about what may have become of baby Thomas. After birth and baptism he seemingly disappears. He was the 6th child.
This is the birth and baptism placement of each child in the family below. I have included the death of each one who died as a child:
Joseph Conroy
Born 9 July 1874
Bapt. 12 July 1874 Our Lady & St Joseph, Brooms
Died 3 December 1882
Burial entry 5 December 1882 St Joseph, Birtley
Margaret Conroy
Born 5 September 1875
Bapt. 3 October 1875 Our Lady & St Joseph, Brooms
Mary Catherine Conroy
Born 29 July 1877
Bapt. 19 August 1877 Our Lady & St Joseph, Brooms
James Michael Conroy
Born 14 September 1879
Bapt. 28 September 1879 St Joseph, Birtley
Bernard Conroy
Born 10 February 1882
Bapt. 12 February 1882 St Joseph, Birtley
Died 24 June 1882
Burial entry 26 June 1882 St Joseph, Birtley
Thomas Conroy
Born 7 May 1883
Bapt. 20 May 1883 St Joseph, Birtley
Death: ???
Simon Joseph Conroy
Born 29 September 1884
Bapt. 5 October 1884 St Joseph, Birtley
Elizabeth Ann Conroy
Born 22 November 1886
Bapt. 28 November 1886 St Joseph Birtley
Died 13 September 1887
Burial entry 16 September St Joseph, Birtley
John Conroy
Born 23 August 1888
Bapt. 26 August 1888, St Joseph, Birtley
Bernard Conroy (My Grandfather)
Born 20 August 1890
Bapt. 31 August 1890 St Joseph, Birtley
Any ideas about what may have become of Thomas will be greatly appreciated. I have had no success with finding out myself and so have now reached the point of thinking that there is nothing for it but to ask for help in solving this puzzle.
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My father had a brother born and die before my father was born. Dad knew his name and 2 cousins have confirmed they have been told about Aubrey.
To fit the gap between my father and his sister, Aubrey was born just after grandad went to war. Grandad was wounded in 1915 and sent home for a few weeks - the result was my father.
No birth registration of Aubrey or any child with grandma's maiden name between sibling and my father. The boy died of meningitis but no death cert.. Asked at the local documents centre and the lady that deals with problems like this gave 3 reasons.
1 - Baby became ill very quickly after birth and to save costs he was declared a stillbirth.
2 - For a few pence you could hand the baby to the grave diggers at the local graveyard who would place the baby in the next grave to be used, the body would be below where the coffin would be. The baby would be in consecrated soil this way.
3 - A relative or someone they knew had a death in the family and the baby was placed in the coffin.
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Clutching at straws - I can't see a birth for this and wonder if it was misheard
Deaths Jun qtr 1883
Thomas CURRY age 0
Chester le S. 10a 288
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Thank you both for these replies. These responses have given me new ideas for things to consider.
Rosie, I wonder if that could be it!! I wonder if his death name could have been misheard or name transcribed incorrectly?
In the next few weeks fitting in with work I will return to the archives and look again at the St Joseph death registers and see if there is a Thomas Curry. I think this sounds plausible. I have only looked for Conroy. Mother Bridget is also in the death register in 1892 so I believe the family stayed in the area up to that time. It has been puzzling for quite a while now wondering what may have happened to him. I will certainly check this out Rosie, and will post on here if I do find a promising Thomas Curry.
Also, if I do find him I will contact the GRO to find out if there might be any possibility that his death registration may have been mis-transcribed.
Many thanks for this possible new lead :)
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You may want to trace Thomas Mark Curry (mmn Clarkson), birth reg Dec qtr 1882 Chester-le-Street, in case the 1883 death registration is his.
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A Thomas Mark Curry appears as Thomas M Aery age 8 in 1891 & Thomas Mark Carry age 28 in 1911.
Born Great Lumley but my Durham geography is very poor....
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Thanks avm .. I will try to do this .. so possibly back to the drawing board on this one then.
Simon's brother James went to America with his wife Rose and I have even wondered if they may have adopted him at one point but I can't find him with that family either. Although why they would adopt that one child when they had a dozen of their own eventually is beyond me anyway.
I have never been able to find Elizabeth, (Simon's Mother's end story) or his brothers Michael or John's end stories so perhaps wherever they disappeared to Thomas may be tied in somewhere. I guess I will have to keep on searching and hopefully Thomas will reappear one day. ??? I will chase up these leads - so thanks to all for your comments.
ADDED Thanks josey for your post too. I think the first thing I must do now is to see if the Curry baby might be in the St Joseph death register - if he is my Grandfather's brother this seems to be the most logical place where I ought to be able to find him.
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as Thomas isn't listed with his family on the 1891 census, I searched Free BMD for surname C*y, first name Thomas, Chester le Street District deaths 1883- 1891.
There is another 'possible' candidate as well as Thomas Curry for a misheard surname, a Thomas William CULLY died 1889, age 4 (the other results were well outside the age range). Its a bit of a stretch from Conroy to Cully, but its an outside chance possible.
Not got time this evening to follow him up, but will look tomorrow if you haven't discounted him by then.
Boo
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Just looked on freebmd
Three Thomas Conroys died around the time you mention.
Two were described as 0 in age ,that usually means under a year old
One was 9.
Can’t remember all three places but South Shields and Dewsbury were two.
Try freebmd,it is a free very useful site.That is all you need to put in ,choose deaths and give the birth year as the first date and go on in five year intervals ,
Best of luck.Viktoria.
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Thanks for these new replies.
I won't be able to discount the Curry or Cully options probably until up to a few weeks because of work and family commitments. I would have been able to go to the Archives today but this is shut on Mondays. I am definitely going to chase this up though and as soon as work hours permit I will get there and post up my findings on here whether he can be found or not.
Yes, freebmd is a great site Viktoria and I do use this all the time. I have already discounted the South Shields and Bradford baby Thomas as both of these babies died in the March quarter and Thomas who was my Grandfather's brother was not born until 7 May 1883. The Dewsbury baby is age 9 in 1885 when he died but Thomas would have only been two then.
I think the first thing I must do as soon as I get a chance is to go back to the St Joseph death registers and try to rule out a mistake with the name. Thomas's Mother Bridget is in the 1892 death register - she died on 4 June 1892 and was buried on the 7th. So this would suggest that the family were in Birtley up until that time at least.
Also, just to add - because Thomas was baptized when he was 13 days old I presume he would not have been buried as a stillborn even if he did die as a very young baby.
Thanks so much everyone for trying to help me with this - I really do appreciate this. :)
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I am at the library now - just clutching at straws. I can see on Ancestry that there seems to have been a 'Simon Conroy' who departed from Liverpool on the Lord Clive for Pennsylvannia - arrival 19 April 1887. His birth date is given as 1851. My Great Grandfather's birth certificate shows he was born on 4 June 1851. Simon's brother James emigrated and settled in Pennsylvania - and had a very gruesome mining death but not until the early 1900s.
However, this may not be my ancestor Simon. This person appears to be travelling on his own anyway. I suppose the family would not have been able to manage without his coalminers wages if he did suddenly decide to head off to see his brother. No sign of Thomas with that Simon either. I think I might just have to be patient until I can get to the archives.
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I got a small window of opportunity to get back to the Tyne and Wear Archives this morning to look again at the St Joseph, RC Church death registers at Birtley.
I now think I have found him - but I believe he has been recorded under the wrong name on this register and on death registration.
In the death registers there is a Thomas Gilroy age 4 months buried on 5 September 1883 (no death date provided) and he is registered under that surname it seems on Volume 10a Page 268. This is the only possible match I can find.
Thomas's Grandfather (James Conroy) was mentioned at a court trial in 1856 as also being known by the surname alias of 'Gilroy'. Also I believe that this James brother Joseph also married a Mary Ann Allen at St Albans, Earsdon under the name of Gilroy.
So thinking about all this I do believe that baby Thomas may well have been registered under the name of Gilroy whether by accident or design. ???
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Good find RTL. Persistence pays off plus lateral thinking !!
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Thanks Josie, it is a mystery why it seems they have used the Gilroy surname again. I think I may never know whether this was due to an accidental error or deliberate. ???