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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: BenRalph on Sunday 18 November 18 14:45 GMT (UK)
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I have posted on here under this username and under my old login name about my ancestors moving from Suffolk in around 1865 to Magdeburg in Germany. I have found about the ones that came back to England in the early 1900s (my direct ancestor came back in 1898 with a brother, then another brother & sister in about 1903, and at least one more brother & their mum, Gertrude Ralph, nee Furrington, after 1911). I've researched as much as I can on the family that remained there but it's not really easy with records seeming to cut off after about 1900 for them.
I'd really like to find any ancestors of the Furrington & Ralph families that stayed in Germany. Below are all I can find for the family who stayed:
These went over in around 1865 with Garrett's of Leiston Co.:
Moses Ralph: born 1837, died 1901 in Magdeburg.
Lazarus & Maria Furrington: born 1819, died 1867 in Magdeburg.
Gertrude Furrington: born 1845, died 1929 in Leeds. Married Moses in 1865 in Magdeburg. Lazarus & Maria's daughter.
William Thomas Furrington: born 1843. No death details known. Married an Emma Laura Louise Ehrlich first, and had at least one daughter, Gertrude Alice, who married an August Adolf Paul Grosse. I can find any more info on Gertrude Alice. William married secondly to Wilhelmine Antonie Bertha Kranz.
Ellen Jane Furrington, born 1854. No death details known. Married a Georg Harve˙ and had at least two girls. Rosa, who married a Karl David Ernst Klooss and had at least one boy, Ernst Helmut Klooss who died in 1942. I can't find any more info on Rosa or her descendants. Ellen and Georg also had Ann˙ who married Arthur Otto Illinger. I can't find any info on these.
Geroge Herbert Furrington: born 1848. Died 1899 in Magdeburg. Married Clara Ernestine Märtens. They had the following children who lived to adulthood and all stayed in Germany I believe:
Herbert Thomas Paul, born 1872, died 1943. He married Emma Ida Auguste Iffland and had at least one son, Herbert Feodor Karl who married Erna Wally Anna Knoblauch. I can find no more info on this line.
Fedor Ernst, born 1876. Married Marie Elise Pohle. I can find no more info on this line.
Elise Clara. born 1879 & died 1922. She married twice that I can see. To Friedrich Paul Taggesell & also to Arthur Robert Gustav Böttcher. She had one son that I can find. Karl Herbert Paul Taggesell who was born 1901. I can't find any more info on him.
Nall˙ Gertrud born 1884. She married Wilhelm Friedrich Thomalla. Again, that's all I can find on this line.
Max Arthur, born 1884. No death known. He married Frieda Paula Spormann and had three children, all died in infancy. No other info known.
Klara Lucie , born 1886. She married Ernst Friedrich Schulze and I can find one son, who died in infancy. Once again, this is all I can find on these.
Moses & Gertrude had the following children (excluding ones who died in infancy and the ones who returned to England):
Alfred Hermann Moses: born 1868. Married Marie Louise Emma Wilke and had Erna Gertrud Marie, Anna Alice, Harr˙ Alfred Hermann (who married Elizabeth Grune. No offspring found) & Hermann Willi Ernst (who married Emma Knopf. No offspring found). No death info for any of these.
Helene Maria Clara, born 1870. She married Matthew Hawkins and had Alfred & Gertrude Ellen Nell˙ Hawkins. I've found nothing else on these.
Alfred John, born 1870. I can find no info at all on him.
Alice Gertrud, born 1871. She married Hermann Claus and had a daughter, Annie. I've found no info on this family, but I got photos from someone I was in contact with who was descended from a Ralph who returned to England.
Robert Wilhelm Thomas: born 1873. Married Anna Luise Schwarzkopf and had 5 children, 3 dying in infancy & two who I can find no info on: Alice Emm˙ & Hildegard Luise.
John Maurice, born 1889 & married Else Helene Ida Banse. Maurice died during WWI and the family story is that he had only been a soldier 2 days and that he had two sons. I can't find anything else on these.
I'm sorry for the very long post but I've been desperately trying to find more on these family, and I'm also hoping to make a trip to Magdeburg next year so would like to know if there are still relatives in the area. Any info I'd love to hear.
Thank you
Ben
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Hi Ben
that is far to much input.
start by naming a few individuals, with dates and places, and we´ll see what we can find
Dave
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Hi Ben,
I've just sent you a PM.
Best regards,
Karen
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Hi Ben
John Maurice, born 1889 & married Else Helene Ida Banse. Maurice died during WWI and the family story is that he had only been a soldier 2 days and that he had two sons. I can't find anything else on these.
Preussische Verlustliste Nr. 663, 9. Oktober 1916
Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 4, 3. Batterie
Ralph Maurice, Magdeburg, gefallen
9 October 1916 is the date when this list was published, so his death could have occured some weeks or even months earlier.
http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4887063
1914/18 the Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 4 (Magdeburgisches) served under the 7. Infanterie-Division und 234. Infanterie-Division.
http://genwiki.genealogy.net/FAR_4
http://genwiki.genealogy.net/7._Division_(Alte_Armee)
Regards
Svenja
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Hi Ben
that is far to much input.
start by naming a few individuals, with dates and places, and we´ll see what we can find
Dave
Hi Dave
Sorry there's so much info. I didn't want people searching for things that I already have and wasting their time.
Hi Ben
John Maurice, born 1889 & married Else Helene Ida Banse. Maurice died during WWI and the family story is that he had only been a soldier 2 days and that he had two sons. I can't find anything else on these.
Preussische Verlustliste Nr. 663, 9. Oktober 1916
Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 4, 3. Batterie
Ralph Maurice, Magdeburg, gefallen
9 October 1916 is the date when this list was published, so his death could have occured some weeks or even months earlier.
http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/4887063
1914/18 the Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 4 (Magdeburgisches) served under the 7. Infanterie-Division und 234. Infanterie-Division.
http://genwiki.genealogy.net/FAR_4
http://genwiki.genealogy.net/7._Division_(Alte_Armee)
Regards
Svenja
Thanks for this info. I'm not able to get my source infos at the minute but I'm sure I saw a death date for him as Sept.
Would these people have classed themselves as German or would they still be regarded as English? I have a newspaper clipping from Leeds in 1903 that lists one of Moses and Gertrude Ralphs sons as Walter Ralph, a German'.
Thanks for the help.
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try researching John Moore Ralph - he married Eliza Turpin in Hamburg and was a Church Chaplain in the British Chaplaincy , Hamburg in the early 1800s - let me have a look for him - ok 1832-
www.geneanet.org
surname
ralph
germany
Name John Moore Ralph
Spouse's Name Eliza Turpin
Event Date 03 Sep 1832
Event Place British Chaplaincy, Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany
all I am suggesting is that on geneanet.org this is the earliest RALPH - Germany on their records
as Chaplain he could well have moved around Germany ?...He may have been the first Ralph in Germany in 1800s
ADDED
jOHNS BIRTH
Name John More Ralph
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Jan 1800
Christening Date (Original) 02 JAN 1800
Christening Place SWALLOW STREET SCOTCH CHURCH,WESTMINSTER,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 12 Dec 1799
Father's Name James Ralph
Mother's Name Mary ........................................
..........................
I am not saying he IS your family - but might be - so maybe just make a note of them ....good luck ...
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try researching John Moore Ralph - he married Eliza Turpin in Hamburg and was a Church Chaplain in the British Chaplaincy , Hamburg in the early 1800s - let me have a look for him - ok 1832-
www.geneanet.org
surname
ralph
germany
Name John Moore Ralph
Spouse's Name Eliza Turpin
Event Date 03 Sep 1832
Event Place British Chaplaincy, Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany
all I am suggesting is that on geneanet.org this is the earliest RALPH - Germany on their records
as Chaplain he could well have moved around Germany ?...He may have been the first Ralph in Germany in 1800s
ADDED
jOHNS BIRTH
Name John More Ralph
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Jan 1800
Christening Date (Original) 02 JAN 1800
Christening Place SWALLOW STREET SCOTCH CHURCH,WESTMINSTER,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 12 Dec 1799
Father's Name James Ralph
Mother's Name Mary ........................................
..........................
I am not saying he IS your family - but might be - so maybe just make a note of them ....good luck ...
Thank you for that.
Before the family I know of went to Germany, they were from around Suffolk, but, the earliest ancestor on the Ralph line was from London.
I think if John is related then it's pretty distant and a coincidence that Moses went over later that century, but I'd like to find out if John Moore Ralph was related. I'll take a look once I'm home from work.
Thanks again.
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Hi Ben,
it is quite time consuming for someone not familiar with your tree to be able to help.
So, not really knowing where to start I went for Moses & Gertrude.
I found the following documents:
Birth certificates for the following children, born in Buckau, Magdeburg.
Sarah Jane 1875
Emmi Elsbeth 1876
Arthur Charles 1877
Herbert Georg 1882
Louise Marie Jenny 1883
Edwin Georg 1884
John Maurice 1889
Marriage certificates for:
Alfred Hermann Moses and Marie Wilke 1893
Alice Gertrud and Hermann Clauss 1894
Tell me what you have / or don´t have
Which of the docs you want and lets take it from there.
I think there is more to be found, just want check out with you to save me searching for things that you already have.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Yes, sorry that there's lots of names, but, as I said, I didn't want people wasting time finding lots of info that I had already, so gave all I know.
I have the birth info of the ones you listed. And the two marriage dates.
But I don't have any info on Alice Gertrud and Hermann Clauss after their marriage.. All I know/believe is that they had at least one daughter (I think two as I have 3 photos, one of Alice & Hermann, one of 'Alice & Annie' and another of Alice and another young lady with similar looks to the girl in 'Alice & Annie' photo). I've no death info for either and no birth documentation of any children.
For Alfred Hermann Moses & Married Marie Louise Emma Wilke I've got 4 children. Erna Gertrud Marie (b 4 Aug 1894),
Anna Alice (b1897 d1898),
Harr˙ Alfred Hermann (b 26 May 1899) who married Elizabeth Grune in 1923 but that's as far as I can get with this couple
Hermann Willi Ernst (b 3 Mar 1906 d 24 Aug 1944) who married Emma Knopf but I've no info on when and I can find no children of theirs.
Also, of the other children of Moses & Gertrude you've found, here's what I can add about them:
Sarah Jane 1875 died aged 2 months
Emmi Elsbeth 1876 died aged 4 in 1881
Arthur Charles 1877 Was known as Karl and came to England in 1899. He had one (but I believe two - one illegitimate) child and died in Leeds in 1951
Herbert Georg 1882 Came to England between 1901 & 1903 when he married. He had 4 children over here and died in 1939 in Leeds
Louise Marie Jenny 1883 She was known as Lucy and had 'a German accent'. She Came to England between 1901 & 1905 when she married Harry Lazenby. She died in Leeds in 1966.
Edwin Georg 1884 He was still in Germany in 1924 when he married Maria Pauline Blumenstein. I can find no mention of any children of this marriage and he was living in Leeds by 1930. He stayed in England but moved to Bedfordshire by 1939 where he died in 1943
John Maurice 1889 He married Else Helene Ida Banse in 1912. He was known as Maurice and died on 27 Sep 1916. The family story is that he had only been a soldier 2 days when he died. We were also told by someone that he had two sons but I've not found any birth registrations on any children.
I hope this bit of extra info saves you time in trying to find anything extra which I'm very grateful of.
Thanks
Ben
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Harr˙ Alfred Hermann (b 26 May 1899) who married Elizabeth Grune in 1923 but that's as far as I can get with this couple
Hi Ben
you didn´t state when Harr˙ Alfred Hermann died.
On their marriage certificate there is a side notation saying that he died on July 9 1965 in Dessau. 757/1965. Just thought i´d mention it
Dave
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But I don't have any info on Alice Gertrud and Hermann Clauss after their marriage
On the 2nd page of the marriage certificate from Hermann Clauss and Alice Ralph there is a side notation saying
a son born 21.3.1895 in Altwasser Nr.115/95
the son married on the 27.1.1944 in Chemnitz Nr.51
Dave
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and i think this is him, Hermann Clauss-Ralph
Chemnitz Adressbuch 1943/44
http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/92256/255/
sales representative for tools, machines and metal goods
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He is listed from 1930 - 1944
If you look at the entries on the left you will see another Hermann Clauss, invalid.
Could be his father
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Dave
Thank you for all this info. It is all new to me. So the son was given a double barrelled name?
Is there no info on a daughter? Or maybe Hermann married and that's the 'Annie' in the photo I have.
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Ben
the side notation on the marriage certificate from Hermann Clauss and Alice Ralph
stating: a son born 21.3.1895 in Altwasser Nr.115/95, is Georg Herbert Arthur Clauss born in Altwasser, Silesia (Schlesien)
If you have a Djvu viewer installed, got to
http://www.archeion.net/repo/82/1505/PL_82_1505_0_1_23/directory.djvu
Page 118
Altwasser:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stary_Zdr%C3%B3j
the Hermann Clauss-Ralph I found could be a brother
Dave
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The daughters could also have been born in Altwasser.
http://archeion.net/atom/index.php/urzad-stanu-cywilnego-w-starym-zdroju-altwasser
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Thank you for the further details. I will have a look at the links in more detail over the weekend. It's nice to know they called a child George Herbert. That's the name of Alice's brother and also her uncle (on the Furrington side) and Arthur is the name of two of Alice's brothers (the first survived. The second died).
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Helene Maria Clara, born 1870. She married Matthew Hawkins and had Alfred & Gertrude Ellen Nell˙ Hawkins. I've found nothing else on these.
I've managed to find that at least the two children came to England. Alfred is on the 1911 census in Leeds and Gertrude is on the 1939. They both married and Alfred had children. I'm not sure about Gertrude yet. She was accused of having an affair in the 30s. Alfred died in Skipton and Gertrude in Keighley.
I think I can assume Matthew was English? He's a very English name. I'd like to know if maybe they came to England too.
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Helene Maria Clara, born 1870. She married Matthew Hawkins and had Alfred & Gertrude Ellen Nell˙ Hawkins. I've found nothing else on these.
I've managed to find that at least the two children came to England. Alfred is on the 1911 census in Leeds and Gertrude is on the 1939. They both married and Alfred had children. I'm not sure about Gertrude yet. She was accused of having an affair in the 30s. Alfred died in Skipton and Gertrude in Keighley.
I think I can assume Matthew was English? He's a very English name. I'd like to know if maybe they came to England too.
I've now found Matthew's remarriage in 1925 and him on the 1939 and his death. All in Skipton. Also Ellen Mary Clara Hawkins died in 1920 in Skipton. I can't find Matthew and/or Ellen in 1911 or Gertrude so I'm assuming they came over between 1911 and 1917 when Gertrude had her first marriage.