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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bermuda blaster on Monday 19 November 18 12:54 GMT (UK)
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Help I am having great deal of trouble finding my grandfathers birth record I believe it was Twysog in Denbighshire in 1886-88 .
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Have you any other information on him?
Louisa Maud
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He was married in liverpool 1911 .Have found him 1911 census as visitor 22 wellbrow road walton.I believe he died on 9th sept 1958.when trying to find his birth place always drawn a blank.cannot find anything about Twysog.please help
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I believe he had a brother named Frederick and sisters Hannah and May also called Roberts
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He married Florence Elsie Norman in Walton Liverpool 1911
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Rhan-hir alias Tywysog was part of the ancient parish of Henllan in Denbighshire but now part of Bylchau. This may be be the place of your grandfather's birth. Ray
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I can't find him so far, I feel sure his marriage cert would help
Louis Maud
ADDED, At the moment I think Henllan comes under St Asaph
I have 2 birth of John born 1886, one maiden name Williams and the other Rowlands, BUT I stand to be corrected
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I have no idea if I am barking up the right tree but I have found the following in births
John Roberts Sept qtr 1886
Hannah Roberts 1883
Frederick Roberts 1888
all with mother's maiden name Rowlands
So far no trace on census as yet
Louisa Maud
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Hi, it might be better to try and get as much information as you can about your grandfather's brother Frederick Roberts and work on his birth. Frederick being not as prolific a name as John, Still a lot of Frederick Roberts though. Where did the brothers live? Where did they die? Burial and memorial stone? Did they have assets leading to probate documents when they passed away?
Ray
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Yes Ray, think will hold off as I am not 100% sure I am at the right family, we need more information, marriage cert would be a good idea
Louisa Maud
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This might narrow it down, I believe father was John Roberts and John Junior was born 1886
Louisa Maud
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many thanks.
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Can you keep us up to date if you find anymore details, it is always good to know we were on the right track. Was there any family talk about a second married for John's mother?
I have tried to look for a suitable marriage for Roberts to Rowland(s)
Louisa Maud
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Where does the information on John’s place of birth come from?
Have you looked for him in the 1939 National Identity Register? If you put in the search that his wife is Florence E you should find them. That will give his date of birth which would be helpful in the search.
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The marriage was at Walton on the Hill, I suspect at the main church. There is only a partial transcription that I have found so far which gives father as John Roberts. Marriage date 29 June 1911.
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Free index to 1939 Register has John Roberts born 1886 in Liverpool with Florence E Roberts born 1891 and Margaret Praet (Roberts) born 1921
Further tinkering suggests Florence born February (maybe Florence Elsie Norman, March 1891, West Derby), and John born August.
The John Roberts - Florence Elsie Norman marriage is available via FamilySearch
His father - John Roberts, Roadman(??)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96J-76LV?i=815&cat=488464
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Witnessed by Hannah Mary Roberts?
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Morning Louisa,Many thanks for help.I am very new to this and I did not know what to do with the msg link=profile;u=22214 date=1542638828.Have spent 30mins reading how to use site this morning. do not know about re marriage it was big shock to read against john in 1939 register he had widowed against marital status this is new to me.know nothing about his parents.
found 1911 census he was visitor to walton and birth place Twysog denbighshire.
He did have sister Hannah and brother Frederick
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Margaret from 1939 could be
Birth, June 1921 West Derby 8b 570
Roberts, Margaret
mother Norman
Marriage, Sep 1948, Liverpool
Louis G Praet + Margaret Roberts
She may have died in 1966, Liverpool. Margaret Praet, age 45.
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thanks everyone .was surprised john roberts born in Liverpool.Margaret Roberts is correct she was my mother born 1921.Have never seen marriage cert for john roberts junior.Only seen wedding photo which long lost uncle written names of Hannah and Fred roberts on back. jonw65 is correct louis is my father. grandmothers maiden name was Norman florence elsie born 1891 liverpool.
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Margaret Roberts did die in 1966-sorry having trouble keeping up with all this info
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1939 does have John and Florence Elsie together, that won't show you where he was born, does give date of birth though
Louisa Maud
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Armed with the date of birth I’d contact either the GRO or St Asaph Register office requesting the birth certificate if John Roberts on that date.
There is a 1901 census entry that could be him giving a place if birth as Henllan Denbighshire.
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The same family in 1891 with John giving a place of birth as Henllan. Father a John is a gamekeeper on both census. Does that ring any bells.
I’d definitely go for the birth certificate now you have a birth date.
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Have found him 1911 census as visitor 22 wellbrow road walton.
Just had a look, yes with the Norman family!
His residence on the marriage looks like 30 Friargate Preston
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wow.Norman family is correct.have to leave to digest and log all this info !!!Incredible have become addicted.
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That is how we all become addicted
I have looked at he 1891 census that Gibel gave, picked out a couple of names to check mothers maiden name
Hannah, circa 1883, found earlier MMN Rowlands
John circa 1886 MMN Rowlands
Catherine circa 1890 MMN Rowlands
checking the rest
Louisa Maud
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This is interesting
1881 ref RG11/5574 FOLIO 9 PAGE 13
I picked out Elias as I thought it might be more unusual
Mother Mary father Robert plus Elias aged 1 and Richard aged 2
What do you think Gibel
Louisa Maud
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1901, ref RG13/5233 FOLIO 16 PAGE 7
This might now clarify the relationships between siblings
John Robert 50
Mary 48
Richard C 22
Elias 21
John 14
Kate (9Catherine on 1891)
Frederick 6
Elizabeth J 4
No Hannah but we now know about Frederick
Louisa Maud
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Not sure that John + Mary will be found together on 1911 census night
Free index has a possibility for a married John Roberts, 60, born Bodfari, with daughter Lizzie J, 14, who was born Llandynog Denbighshire
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JK-QN5
Game keeper turned Roadman?
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Maybe
Sep 1896 Ruthin 11b 297
Roberts, Elia Jane
mother Rowlands
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Problem I am finding is there re quite a few birth wit MMN Rowlands
Elizabeth J on 1901 aged 4 might be Lizzie J
LM
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Well, this could be her school record
Llandyrnog National School
admitted 10.4.1900
Roberts, Elizabeth Jane
address Penllwyn
parent/guardian John Roberts
date of birth 13.9.96
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This is odd
A triple admission at Llandyrnog National School, 23 July 1894
parent/guardian J Roberts
address Penllwyn
Hannah Mary Roberts, born 2.10.82
Tommy Roberts, born 13.8.84
John Roberts, born 16.7.86
Names match, John's birth date not in August!
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Perhaps dad got a bit confused
Louisa Maud
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They are not the most reliable source for dates of birth, usually right but not always.
Everything else seems to fit nicely!
John
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a baptism from Henllan
Catherine Roberts bp 17 July 1889 daughter of John, gamekeeper, and Elizabeth of Tywysog Lodge
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That is interesting as mother on census is showing as Mary, I do feel that a birth cert here would be a good idea to establish mother's maiden name
Louisa Maud
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I am convinced we have the right family here bearing in mind the siblings you say there were
Still think a birth or marriage cert would be a good idea, sometimes we have to splash out a few pounds to clarify matters
Happy Hunting
Louisa Maud
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thank you so much once again.I will start getting certificates.It is an amazing history I knew very little about.
I will travel to N.Wales in new year and visit all these places-will also add any further info I can obtain
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Don't forget, please let us know
Louisa Maud