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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: londonscorpion on Monday 19 November 18 14:48 GMT (UK)
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I am having a problem with a few words in this will. I am attaching several snippets and my attempted transcription surrounding the problem words identified with either xxxx or ?abc?.
Here is my transcription of:
Page 2 snippet 1
9. occupation of Robert Newman his assigns or undertenants part
10. of which said premises are copyhold and hold of the Mannor
11. of Lullington and by me only surrendered to the xxxx of my last
12. will and testament in writing and also all that my ffreehold
13. ........
16. undertenants to hold the same and every part and parcel thereof
17. With those and every of their ?Windows? and appurtenances to
18. My said wife Martha for and during the term of her natural
19. .........
21. I give and devise all and every the said Messuage Farm
22. Land Tenements xxxx and premises as hereinbefore
23. Mentioned with their and every of their Lights Windows and
24. Appurtenances unto my son James Batchellor and the heirs
25. Of his body lawfully to be begotten and for want of such xxxx
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Here is my transcription of:
Page 2 snippet 2
49. Malthouse Gardens Croft and premisses thereunto belonging with
50. The appurtenances now in the occupation of Nicholas xxxx his
51. Assigns or undertenants and also all that that Messuage or Tenement
52. With the Malthouse or warehouse Stable buildings Garden and
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Page 3 snippet 1
17. And appurtenances unto my son John Batchelor and the
18. Heirs of his body lawfully to be begotten and for want of
19. such xxxx I give and devise the same to my said son William
20. Batchelor and his heirs and assigns forever also I give to my
21. Said wife Martha the use of all my household goods utensils
22. And xxxx of household plate linnen and ffurnitures
23. Of every sort or kind whatsoever for and during the term of
24. .......
26. And administrators and as for all the sheep oxen horses cows
27. Calves ?Hogs? cattle corn hay and xxxxxxx xxxxxx of every
28. Sort and kind whatsoever which I shall have upon any of
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Page 3 snippet 2
37. Continue a widow be received and enjoyed by her and from
38. And after her death or second marriage which shall first
39. Happen I give and bequeath the same Money so xxxx to be
40. Or at that time put out at interest as aforesaid to my said
41. .........
45. Hereof my said wife Martha shall sign and execute
46. ?same? or instrument or instruments in writing thereby
47. xxxxaring that she is entitled to the interest thereof only
48. during her life or widowhood and that after her death
49. ........
50. shall or is to be the proper Money of my said son John and
51. To be by him had and received xx xx ?singly? also I give and
52. bequeath to my said wife Martha for her life in case she
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Page 4 snippet 1
9. Pounds by annuities to be charged on the said Rates or
10. Duties and in the proportional annuity of four pounds by the
11. xxxx by the year attending the same and from and after
12. My said wifes Death or second marriage which shall first happen
13. ..........
21. And guardian of such of my children as shall be minors at the
22. Time of my death entirely relying upon her xxxx in their
23. Maintenance and xxxx and as for such of my debts as
24. My personal Estate not before hereby given to my said son
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Page 4 snippet 2
35. in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and
36. fifty one Will Batchelor Signed sealed published and xxxx by the xxxx and William
37. Batchelor the Elder the Testator as and for his last Will and Testament in the presence of xxxx subscribed xxxx
38. Xxxx thereto in his presence Ri Alchorne Nich xxxxkin Nic. Gilbert.
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I have just cropped your image to remove the white space.
Page 4 snippet 2
Regards
Sarah
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P2 Snippet #1:
10 ...and held of the Mannor...
11 ...by me duly Surrendered To the use of...
13 ...Messuage or Tenement Garden and premisses Situate lying and...
17 ...with their and every of their Members and...
19 ...Life in case she shall so long continue a Widow and from and...
22 ...Lands Tenements Hereditaments and Premisses hereinbefore...
23 ...their Rights Members and...
25 ...want of such Issue I...
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Huge apologies for the unnecessary white space. I hope the attached are acceptable.
Here are the page 2 snippets
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Snippet page 3/1
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Snippet page 3/2
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Snippet page 4/1
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Snippet page 4/2
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P2 Snippet #2:
50 ...Nicholas Rankin...
This one is tricky. The capital is slightly different to the other Bs in the clips.
I couldn't see an R to compare.
That's all I am able to do tonight.
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Thanks for your help so far Horseley. Have a good evening and see you tomorrow.
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Page 3 snippet 1
19. such Issue I give and devise the same to my said son William
22. and Implements of Household Plate Linnen and ffurniture
27. Calves Hogs Cattle Corn Hay and Husbandry Tackling of every
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Page 3 snippet 2
39. happen I give and bequeath the same Money so directed to be
46. some or instrument or instruments in writing thereby
(I think the first or was written in error, and it should just be ... some instrument or instruments)
47. declaring that she is intitled to the Interest thereof only
51. to be by him had and received accordingly also I give and
(You have many capitals at the start of lines that aren't in the original -- have you perhaps got auto-correct switched on to capitalise the first letter after a full stop? Second rule of transcribing is to turn off auto-correct ;) )
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Page 4 snippet 1
11. Hundred by the Year attending the same and from and after
22. time of my death entirely relying upon her care in their
23. Maintenance and Education and as for such of my Debts as
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Page 4 snippet 2
36. ffifty one Will Batchelor Signed Sealed published and declared by the within named William
37. Batchelor the Elder the Testator as and for his last Will and Testament in the presence of us who Subscribed our names
38. as Witnesses thereto in his presence Ri. Alchorne Nichs Rankin Nic. Gilbert.
(Say if I've missed anything. Duplicate postings, some trimmed some not, are a bit confusing.)
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Thanks Bookbox, and for the auto correct tip - will go through again and fix the capitalisation.
On page 3 line 22 is it not furnitures in the plural?
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On page 2 line 17, I am struggling to imagine what Members might be referring to; I must admit I still read this as Windows.
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On page 3 line 22 is it not furnitures in the plural?
I read it as ffurniture. The last mark on the line is just a 'filler', also seen at the ends of other lines.
I am struggling to imagine what Members might be referring to
I believe it just means the constituent parts that belong to it, similar to 'appurtenances'.
I must admit I still read this as Windows
If you look at Page 2 line 52, which has both Malthouse and Warehouse together, you can see the difference between the capital M and the capital W. In the extract below, everything to the left of the vertical line belongs to the M. Once you have this in mind, I think the -embers is clear, using two different kinds of e.
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You have that one BookBox. Thanks, but I need to send you a PM
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‘Rights, members and appurtenances’ is a commonly found phrase in property documents, particularly in relation to manorial land.
Oxford English Dictionary
member, n. and adj.
II.5.a. A section or district, esp. an outlying part of an estate, manor, parish, etc. Now rare.
(with references from 1485 to 1891)
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BB, Thanks for that.
One more thing to clarify: on page 2a we have a Nicholas Bankin, and on page 4a Nicholas Rankin as witness. I would imagine this could have been the same person or at least the same family. Can we decide whether it is an R or a B.
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on page 2a we have a Nicholas Bankin, and on page 4a Nicholas Rankin as witness. I would imagine this could have been the same person or at least the same family. Can we decide whether it is an R or a B.
The first instance (p. 2) is referred to in reply #13 above. Like Horselydown, I think it is unclear, but because the letter curls back on itself it looks to me more like B than R.
In the second instance (the witness on p. 4), the letter curls slightly forwards, definitely not backwards, and therefore looks more like R. It's also closer in shape to other known Rs in the document.
Sometimes these things are not clearcut. You have to remember that register wills are copies. The original itself may have been unclear, and/or the clerk may have misread it. Until you can confirm the name from elsewhere it would probably be wise to incorporate both possible names in your research.
On further review of the witnesses’ names, I now think the last one is Ric. Gilbert (not Nic., as previously suggested).
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One more thing to clarify: on page 2a we have a Nicholas Bankin, and on page 4a Nicholas Rankin as witness. I would imagine this could have been the same person or at least the same family. Can we decide whether it is an R or a B.
Initially I went with Rankin, based on the difference in formation of the capital letter compared to other capital Bs. See the second, lower, loop at the left of the letter, on his B (eg Buildings & Batchelor), not found on the name's capital. This was despite the backwards loop of the lower right-hand section of the name's capital.
However, having now found capital Rs in the full will, it's also quite different to those (see Read, Roberts, Reign & Rates).
I now think he must have intended to write Bankin at the time he wrote the first name (based on what he saw in the original text).
But I also see the witness name as Rankin.
As Bookbox has said, it can't be resolved perfectly.
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I just can't tell. So I extracted all the B and R words and put them together. Still can't tell. But looking at the R words there would appear to be two differeent styles of writing: two different people or perhaps two different pens. What do you think? Maybe even a third hand for the very small print.
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I seem to have cropped too much off one of the "Buildings", so here is a corrected grouping.
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But looking at the R words there would appear to be two differeent styles of writing: two different people or perhaps two different pens. What do you think? Maybe even a third hand for the very small print.
I would say just one hand for the main text. There's always going to be a slight variation depending on how fresh the ink is on the pen and what part of the page is more or less comfortable for the writer to address.
In making their register copies, the PCC copyists deliberately used another hand for the witness signatures, presumably to show that they were written by a separate hand on the original.
ADDED:
By "another hand" I mean the same writer switched out of his trained copyist's hand to a less formal hand.
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I guess we'll never know for sure. Thank you both for all your help.