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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Forfarian on Monday 19 November 18 23:21 GMT (UK)
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Thomas Livingstone Fenton-Livingstone married Christian Margaret Waddell in 1855 in Edinburgh. They had five sons, three of whom died young. The other two were John Nigel Edensor Fenton-Livingston, born 1859, and George Frederick James Fenton-Livingston, born 1860 died 1907.
John married Elizabeth Margaret (Elma) MacDougall of Ardincaple in New York in 1892. They had two sons and a daughter. In 1904 both sued for divorce on grounds of the other's adultery, and the divorce was granted in 1905. He got custody of the sons and she of the daughter. Elma married her co-respondent in 1906, and died in Hove in 1920. John didn't marry the mother of his illegitimate child; she married someone else and died in Glasgow in 1960.
I have plenty of information about George and his family, and I have information about John's sons and their families.
What I am struggling with is what became of John Nigel Edensor Fenton-Livingstone.
He had a successful Army career, during which he fought in the Boer War, and became a Justice of the Peace.
He and his brother were involved in a court case over which was entitled to succeed to their maternal grandfather's estate of Easter Moffat under the terms of the marriage contract between their parents and their maternal grandfather. The Lords agreed that their grandfather's intention was that George should get Wester Moffat.
Part of John's own inheritance, Bedlormie, was sold to meet their father's debts in their father's lifetime, and John assisted their father financially to secure West Quarter. However in 1909 John was sequestrated and West Quarter too was sold. After that I have found no trace of him. He didn't die in New Zealand, I can't find anything about him in Trove, Papers Past, or the British Newspaper Archive and he isn't in the FamilySearch index to the USA census unless I have missed something. A web search turns up nothing. The only hint is that there is a history of West Quarter that says he died before his ex-wife. That puts his death some time between 1909 and 1920.
What am I missing?
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Have we have a thread about him before? Oddly my iPad autofills “-Livingstone” if I type in Fenton.
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No, but there was one about his father's baptism.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=548103
I did search the archive before posting, just in case there was one already.
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Might this be him in Chiswick in 1911?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW49-QFV
The signature reveals him to be "J Fenton-Livingstone, major"
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CHARGE AGAINST A MAJOR. John Nigel Fenton Livingstone 64 retired officer, on bail, was indicted for obtaining by false pretences with intent to defraud from Alfred ........
(Chelmsford Chronicle 6 April 1923, page 5)
Stirlingshire JP Charged at Southend. Major Nigel Fenton Livingstone (62), staying temporarily at Kensington Read, Southend, stated to be Justice of the Peace for Stirling, was committed for trial...
(Falkirk Herald 10 March 1923)
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Having failed to make restitution in the time that the court had allowed him, he was sentenced to six months in prison ( Chelmsford Chronicle 6 July 1923, Falkirk Herald 7 July 1923).
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CHARGE AGAINST A MAJOR. John Nigel Fenton Livingstone 64 retired officer, on bail, was indicted for obtaining by false pretences with intent to defraud from Alfred ........
(Chelmsford Chronicle 6 April 1923, page 5)
Stirlingshire JP Charged at Southend. Major Nigel Fenton Livingstone (62), staying temporarily at Kensington Read, Southend, stated to be Justice of the Peace for Stirling, was committed for trial...
(Falkirk Herald 10 March 1923)
It looks as though he and his companions, “Mrs Havelock and a girl” had been boarding in Southend boarding houses since May 1921, promising that they would soon be in funds to make payment for food and accommodation, but payment never materialised. The longest spell had been spent in rooms let by Alfred Pearce, a carpenter, who was owed some £157 accrued over a year and a half.
The Major did not have any Army pension because his service over some 20 years had been broken.
Mrs Havelock was from Deal, where she and her husband had kept a boarding house at which the Major had boarded after he left the Army. Mr Havelock’s health was poor, and when he was committed to an asylum the business failed and the Major took Mrs Havelock to Southend. According to the reports, they “went as man and wife from 1919”.
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Wow! Thank you for all that. Yes, the 1911 is him (wonder why my search failed to find it?). Violet Stairmand was actually his daughter. No idea who Hoy is but I suppose he would have had to employ a housekeeper/companion/governess for the child.
I am struggling to understand why, having searched for given name Fenton and surname Livingston, I did not find the results you have since found for me ???
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Some military info for him from 1914 www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28916/supplement/7660/data.pdf
Monica
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I think I have news of John, I believe him to be the father of Violet daughter of my gt gt Aunt, she worked in the family home and Violet is staying with John on the 1911 census in London, where she is attending school. I believe he died in London in 1940, i have photos of Violet and her mother.
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Hello Franh, and welcome to RootsChat.
I am delighted to have news of the errant John.
Following information in this thread, I found the 1911 census, and then the birth of Violet Marina Melrose Stairmand, daughter of Wilhelmina Stairmand, on 9 September 1897 in Edinburgh, and I have a note of Wilhelmina's subsequent marriage to Andrew Cowe and her death in Glasgow.
I think Violet may have married George M Wight in 1915, but I have not found her after that.
I still cannot find the death of John Nigel Edensor Fenton-Livingstone in London or anywhere else, however.
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Thanks so much for the reply, its great to hear confirmation of some of the stories I heard from mygran. The story in our family was that Wilhelmina/Minnie had Violet, the daughter of a son of the family she worked for. This ties in with Minnie being in 1901 In the Mansion House Grangemouth, as a Housekeeper which I beleive was the home of the Livingstones. I am sure my gran told me that Violet was born deaf, and Died after being hit by a bus. I didn’t know she had married, I cant find any trace of Minnie in 1891, do you know where she was? I found a John Livingstone on the 1939 Register with an approximate birth date at St Francis Hospital Constance Rd East Dulwich. S. E. 22, and a death for a John Livingstone in 1940 in Camberwell.
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There is a death registration of Violet M.M Stairmand, aged 44, in 1940 in Haymarket.
flst
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Thanks so much for the info on Violet, I could never find her death, I've just fiound it on ScotlandsPeople, she did indeed die after being run over by a motor bus, so sad.
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There are lots of newspaper reports about the double divorce process of J N E Fenton-Livingstone, many of which mention Wilhelmina Stairmand and say that she was the mother of his child. His wife sued for divorce on grounds of adultery, and he counter-sued on the grounds of her adultery with the man to whom she had previously been engaged before meeting JNEF-L, and whom she married after the divorces.
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Thank you for that. I had discovered that Violet M M Stearman who married in 1915 was the wrong one.
In 1901 she was in the mansion house of Westquarter in Polmont, parish of Grangemouth, which was indeed the home of the Fenton-Livingstone family.
The John Livingstone in the 1939 Register in Camberwell is listed as born on 11 July 1858. JNEF-L was born on 11 August 1859, but I suppose if he was, as described, 'incapacitated' the hospital might easily have mistaken his DoB. Such a pity that English death certificates are so uninformative, unlike Scottish ones which name the spouse(s) and parents of the deceased. Though if he was mentally incapacitated and in an institution, even a Scottish one might not contain the full details.
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OK so now I’m off to look for the newspaper reports, I always had my suspicions that Violet was living with her father in 1911, I wonder if she ever knew, I hadn’t realised it was in the newspapers, i thought it was a family ‘secret’, are you related at all to the Stairmands/Livingstone families Forfarian? Thanks for all the info/replies, Fran
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I am very distantly related to JNEF-L through his mother, but not to the Stairmands.
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Try this -
https://www.geni.com/people/Lt-John-Fenton-Livingstone/6000000017969342249
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Thanks, barryd. Interesting.
Especially a brother 'Gust J Lewington' who doesn't appear in the birth indexes or in any census with the rest of his family.
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1871 Gust J Lewington 10y Scholar ( and others )
20 Royal Circus,685/1 St George, Edinburgh St Stephens, Midlothian
ED: 77, House: 11, Line: 14, Roll: CSSCT1871_157
Line above is John NE Lewington 11y
Plus others [ Parents Thomas LF, Christine M, Bro Charles H ]
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Thanks, [Ray].
I assume that that is a transcription from Ancestry. Only they could ****** up a transcription to that extent. No wonder I couldn't find any mention of Gust J Lewington in any primary sources.
The original is a bit messy but it is George F J. And as for how they got Lewington, goodness only knows.
FindMyPast's transcription got it right.
See attached.
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Very interesting, I will have a good read of this thread as my 4th great grandmother was Anne Livingstone who married Rev John Fenton and won a court case thus her Fenton children were able to inherit her father's estate at Bedlormie. My grandmother was Eveline Katherine Fenton. :)
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Yes, there is certainly plenty of material about that court case - a very interesting one.
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While on the topic of the Fenton-Livingstone family, I see from the 1911 census that, following her mother's divorce and remarriage to Alfred Nicholson Sanderson, daughter Janet Grace, born 1899, is listed in the 1911 census as Janet G Sanderson, and that a Janet G Sanderson, aged 20, travelled to Singapore in October 1919, interning to live permanently in Malaya.
I can't find any reference to her in the Australia, New Zealand or Singapore newspapers, or in fact anywhere else, so I can't be sure that the one who travelled to Singapore is JNEF-L's daughter.
Has anyone else come across her anywhere after 1919?
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Forfarian
You obviously saw the John in Salford 3rdQ 1933 whose age (74), matches his birth and pondered.
Don
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Thank you. I didn't ponder long.
Apart from the difference in spelling, the absence of any middle initials, and the possible candidate in the 1939 Register, the grant of probate was to a William Livingston and Margaret Kerridge née Livingston who appear to be the children of John Livingston and Margaret Hagan. So I concluded that he isn't JNEF-L.
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I haven’t done much background into my surname just the odd google, but I am Fenton-livingstone I remember my parents telling me about a book with our family history but I was never allowed to look at it. I can go back as far as my granddad who was a John fenton-livingstone but I have nothing else. I know I came across some war medals from the First World War but I don’t no much else
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Without naming anyone who may be alive (data protection/privacy rules here on RC), why not include some names and dates here so people can see where your line may fit in with the people discussed here?
Monica
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From a website called Geni
What became of John Nigel Edensor Fenton-Livingstone ...www.rootschat.com › forum
Nov 19, 2018 — CHARGE AGAINST A MAJOR. John Nigel Fenton Livingstone 64 retired officer, on bail, was indicted for obtaining by false pretences with intent to ...
Lt John Nigel Edensor Fenton-Livingstone (1859 - d ... - Geniwww.geni.com › people › Lt-John-Fenton-Livingstone
Dec 2, 2016 —
Genealogy for Lt John Nigel Edensor Fenton-Livingstone (1859 - d.) family tree on Geni, with over 200 million profiles of ancestors and living ...
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I think some of the information on Geni may have originated with me, though I didn't put it there, and there are several discrepancies between the information I have and the information on Geni. For example Geni says that John Nigel Edensor was born in New York (not true; he was born in Edinburgh), and that he had a brother Gust J Lewington (this is garbage; it is from a misreading of the census records for George J Fenton-Livingstone - see an earlier post in this thread).
JackFenton321, if you post a couple more messages here, we will be able to make contact by Personal Message.
What do the First World War medals tell you?
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Hello thanks for the reply, in reference to names all I know is that my father who inherited the name Andrew John fenton-livingstone born in 1959 he was adopted from my grandfather and grandmother I don’t really remember them but I know my grandfather name was John fenton-livingstone in regards to the war medals there are numerous battle medals I didn’t do much research as was a bit of a hot topic with my father, if my family is somehow connected with the previous names mentioned Ill find it quite promising as I also served in the Royal Navy
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HI All
Fascinating article below
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000468/19081202/048/0005
Falkirk Herald
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks, Bruce.
What was the date of the article? I access the BNA via FindMyPast and the link doesn't work for me - it just produces a request to cough up for direct access to the BNA.
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Hi Forfarian
Date Wednesday 02 December 1908
Very interesting lineage
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks again, Bruce. Yes, very interesting.
There are a couple of newsworthy episodes in the family, including a famous case about marriage with deceased wife's sister in 1855, and the prominent double divorce in 1904. Not forgetting the litigation between brothers about who was to succeed to Easter Moffat.