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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ..claire.. on Tuesday 20 November 18 01:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi
The first snippet is taken from Boyds Inhabitants of London and concerns my ancestor Leonard Curson. Can anyone tell me what those first three words are ? I'm confident that the third is index, but not sure about the other two.
The second snippet is taken from Leonards Will dated 1603. He leaves money to his sisters daughters, the snip includes Christian ? ? ? three pounds and Rose ? ? ? - Is that a surname ? Possibly Dewite or Dewise.
Thank you for any help given.
Claire
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Com(mon) Serj(eant’s) Index -- a register belonging to the ‘Court of Orphans’ in the City of London. This was one of the sources of information used by Boyd for the families of City Freemen.
A description of the responsibilities and activities of the Court of Orphans at various dates is given here ...
https://aim25.com/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=11437&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=
I read the surname in your second snippet as Dewite.
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Hi Bookbox
Thank you so much :)
You made my day :)
Claire
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Hi Claire
On my tablet so can't see actual book page images, but Curson here:-
Returns of aliens dwelling in the city and suburbs of London from the reign of Henry VIII to that of James I
Published 1907
Volume Vol 10 Pt 3(1522-1625)
https://archive.org/details/returnsofaliensd1031hugu/page/n7
Covers: lay subsidies, additional (London), Surrey, divers counties (Middx.), Middlesex, London, Dutch church registers; domestic state papers of Mary, Elizabeth, James I, and Henry VIII; Lansdowne MS, Dutch church MS, Cecil manuscripts, Strype's "Archbishop Grindall," Haynes's "State papers," Strype's "Annals of the Reformation," Burn's "History of the foreign refugees," Stow's "Survey of London" by Strype, Hamper's "Life of Dugdale" and includes an index of trades, occupations, etc. at the beginning of each volume as well as an index of places in and near London at the end of each volume
pt. 1. 1523-1571 -- pt. 2. 1571-1597 -- pt. 3. 1598-1625 ; Additions, 1522-1595 -- [pt. 4]. Index
Cumulative index: [pt. 4]
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Also Curson and Cursoone, here
Returns of aliens dwelling in the city and suburbs of London from the reign of Henry VIII. to that of James I
Published 1900
https://archive.org/details/returnsofaliensdkirk
Mark
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Hi Mark
Wow - This Curson and Dewite family have proved quite hard to track down with no evidence of them in early parish records. The first book I’ve looked at gave me a De White family of Dutch origin.
So something new to look into
You made my day too :)
Claire
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Hi Claire
As I mentioned the other day re the Index, the first two words in the image were abbreviated that the middle abbreviation was for Serjeant and Bookbox would know, so I've learnt something too re Com Serj Index.
Thank you Bookbox.
Mark
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Hi Claire,
I happen to be working on orphanage records ... You might be interested to know that the Common Serjeant's book entry says that Leonard's estate was worth 326li 9s 10d. With deductions for debt and his funeral expenses this came to just under 300li, of which (by the rules of orphanage) one third was set aside for his orphan Humphrey. This money would have been held either by sureties arranged by his widow, or in an interest bearing account overseen by the Chamberlain of London. When Humphrey reached 21, he would receive total with interest.
Leonard's widow was Elizabeth and Humphrey is named as the sole surviving son.
It says that Leonard also left a will (which I see is in the PCC archive) -- possibly you have this already.
cheers,
Mike
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Hi Mike
This is fabulous information, thank you so much :)
I do have the Will, yes. As yet I can't get any further back than 1603 when the Will went through probate, the family don't seem to appear in any other records, so what you have provided is meat on the bones, brilliant.
Thank you again
Claire
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Hi Claire,
If you have the probate date for the will I'll have a check through the orphan's court records (I can't promise anything -- the archive is massive!).
You're a bit unlucky that the Weavers' Company apprenticeship records to not survive back to the dates that you need. However, if he was an immigrant then he was probably free by redemption.
all the best,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
That’s a wonderful offer and thank you, please don’t go to too much trouble though but I do appreciate what you are offering.
Probate date for Leonard’s Will was 29 October 1603.
It’s a shame my ancestor, or any of the other family members named in the Will don’t seem to appear in any Anglican Registers, I have absolutely no idea where the family originated.
Thank you for your time 😊
Claire
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Hi Claire
Don't know if any of these returns are relevant, or helpful?
A search of the Bodleian Library, Oxford is also bringing up some search returns, but only under Curzon it seems.
https://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/s?query=Curzon
The British Library has quite an extensive collection of various Manuscripts and 65 for Curson on the Manuscripts Catalogue.
https://www.bl.uk/catalogues-and-collections/catalogues
Manuscripts Catalogue
http://searcharchives.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?dscnt=1&dstmp=1542845500280&vid=IAMS_VU2&fromLogin=true
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C 134/2/16
William de Curzun alias de Curszoun (Curson): Herefordshire, Norfolk
1 Edw II
(too early, but mentions Herefordshire)
C 104/261
BUNDLE No 9: Bond of Pauncefoote Wall of Hereford to John Curson of Exeter, merchant, 1668.
1560 to 1711
TNA has many more listings for Curson.
Understanding the movements of a family since, can also help to trace where the documents might be now and many that did survive were deposited into an Archive/s from where the family were living in the 20th Century, or retained in Private hands by them.
Bear in mind at some Archives, you might have to enquire by email, if they have a Handlist and/or paper Catalogues and Indexes, as some family collections are not online, or only a very brief summary of a collection appears.
Mark
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Hi Mark,
Thank you for those links, it is giving me things to work with, it's also the second time Herefordshire has come up. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C7580385
John Curson and his sister Margaret (my direct ancestor) - were both children of Humphrey Curson. Humphrey C married and lived in Exeter until his death in 1643.
Thankyou for all the help that you are giving me :)
Claire
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Hi Claire
Yes, the lands at Calowe / Callow, Much Birch and Haywood, may once have been owned or connected to Humfry / Humphry Curson of Exeter and then been sold or passed on.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=curson%20Hereford%20exeter&_ep=Curson&_dss=range&_sd=1550&_ed=1670&_ro=any&_st=adv
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=Guys%20Hospital%20Curson&_ep=Guys%20Hospital&_dss=range&_sd=1500&_ed=1670&_ro=any&_st=adv
A subsequent owner seems to have deposited the Deeds at least.
Perhaps email Devon and Herefordshire Archives & see if they have anything else?
Happy hunting, Mark
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Hi Claire
Twyford mentioned.
An earlier reference to Twyford Norfolk here
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol8/pp282-285
Thomas Curson of Twyford was lord, and presented in 1393, and William Curson in 1414; but in the year 1448, John Heydon, Robert Popy, &c. presented; John Popy was lord in 1464, and with Catherine his wife
Mark
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Hi Claire
Curson and Cursons apparently appear in the following:-
Exeter in the Seventeenth Century: Tax and Rate Assessments, 1602-1699
Vol. 2
William George Hoskins, Printed for the Society by the Devonshire Press, 1957
Book contains the:-
Subsidy of 1602
Subsidy of 1629
The Poll Tax of 1660
(see Index of book for page numbers)
snippet view (from search engine)
12d X Richord Curson, widow 30s X John Curson 6s £3 0s 6d X George Curson 4s 12d X Ruth Greedy 12d 5s 6d X John Cooke merchant ...
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The Antient History and Description of the City of Exeter; ...
1765
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0npbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA210&dq=Cursoon+of+Exeter&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtsPDo1OfeAhXIJsAKHatyAXUQ6AEINTAE
John Curson, Receiver, and of the Common-Council, ... page 210
1697 John Curfon, Esq., being Mayor, ... page 215
Mark
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Hi Claire
On the stone in the photograph it says Richard Curson Sr., was Born in England and Wife was Elizabeth Becker died 31st March 1787. Born 8th January 1731[?].
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14739811/richard-curson
Don't know if above related to Exeter, or if any use, I'll leave the checking to you.
Richard Curson, Jr
BIRTH 1 Jun 1763
New York, New York County (Manhattan), New York, USA
DEATH 14 Jun 1808 (aged 45)
Baltimore City, Maryland, USA
BURIAL Old Saint Pauls Cemetery
Baltimore, Baltimore City, Maryland, USA
PLOT 86
Mark
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Hi Claire,
A preliminary search proved very easy.
A quick guide to the procedure of the orphans' court: if a freeman of the city of London dies with children under 21, the executor/administrator (often the widow) is bound by a recognizance to provide an inventory of the estate. Once the inventory is approved, the executor is bound by another recognizance to set aside a third value of the estate for the orphans. Once done, the court determined custody of the orphans. Subsequently, interest from the third portion could be used by the guardian to pay for costs, particularly education, of the orphans. When they are 21, orphans return to the court and sign off receipt of their portions.
For Elizabeth Curson the process begins on 17 Nov 1603 (this is in the Court of Aldermen Repertories). The inventory is approved and on 14 Mar 1603/4 she sets aside a third portion (100li) with four sureties:
herself,
Humphry Rosser, armourer,
George Hickson, skinner,
William Carpenter, skinner.
('armourer' and 'skinner' typically indicate company membership)
They are bound to secure the money with a penalty of 120li. This is quite low, suggesting they were deemed highly trustworthy by the court. For some reason, presumably clerical error, Leonard is described in the repertories as a citizen and draper (pannor[ius]).
There is a copy of the bond in the Letter Books, which has signatures from the sureties -- including Elizabeth. This also correctly describes Leonard as a weaver (textor[ius]).
If you are interested the LMA ref. for this is COL/AD/01/027, f. 183. Letter Book BB.
I recommend tracking down info on the sureties, and definitely read their wills if they left any. Orphan sureties are quite often friends or relatives of the bereaved family.
Note that there will be more information in the court, possibly details of the orphan's upbringing, but finding them will require a substantial search. Check back with me in a year or two and I may have more!
Something I spotted by chance: there's an entry in the repertories 14 Dec 1603 ordering that Elizabeth Curson, widow, may sell seacoals provided for the poor by retail at five pence the bushel.
I recommend checking the LMA and National Archives catalogues for Leonard as there are promising looking property and legal records that may take you back further.
all the best,
Mike
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Hi
Firstly I have to thank you both, you've both been very kind in what you have found for me.
A few things I thought I would add just in case anyone else just happens to search for his family at a later date.
Humphrey Rosser is described as Leonards father in law in his Will, so presumably he is Elizabeth's father
George Hickson is described as Leonards brother in Law , I have managed to track this man today but it's not really got me any further with who these Cursons were.
George married Agnes Litch(e)lade in April 1589 - had four children John, Ann, Humphrey and William.
George Hickson died in 1615, no Will that I can see.
Agnes married secondly Thomas Cummings. She died in 1622 but did leave a Will in the PCC, here she known as Ann Cumyns late wife of George Hickson skinner. Humphrey Curson of Exeter is her 'cousin' in the Will. It also mentions her sister Elizabeth Cotton of Exeter - I have to wonder if this should say Curson, and it is Humphreys mother, or perhaps she has married again.
I have plenty of searching to do, but it's so fascinating, thanks to you both :)
Claire
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Something I spotted by chance: there's an entry in the repertories 14 Dec 1603 ordering that Elizabeth Curson, widow, may sell seacoals provided for the poor by retail at five pence the bushel.
Hi Claire
In my two Volumes of The Rise of the British Coal Industry by J. U. Neff, in Volume Two
Vol ii, page 31 ,says: ..."in the chief enterprises in Weardale,1 those of John Curzon, a trader at Nottingham in Elizabeth's reign, in Leicetershire, mines, 2 suggest that there were few English colliery districts in which provincial merchants took no part in financing mines.3"
1 Palat. of Durham, Decrees and Orders, vol. i, f.533 ; Exch. Decrees, Series IV, vol. viii, f. 88 ; vol. ix, f. 24b (for Lilburne) ; Palat. of Durham, Bills and Answers, bdl. 24 (Parkingson v. Lee).
2 Chanc. Proc., Eliz., O. 1/40. (Chancery Proceedings)
Abbreviations
Palat. of Durham - Palatinate of Durham.
Exch. - Exchequer
3 is the author's impression suggesting that scores of provincial merchants, besides Newcastle and Bristol, invested in coal mining during the seventeenth century.
Not really much in the book, just a passing reference. Might be more in the documents though.
Mark