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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Braytons on Thursday 22 November 18 13:21 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Please can anyone give me an idea, from their own experience of matches or their deep knowledge of dna, if its better to have a higher CMs number or more segments.
I have two or three matches on Ancestry, described as Very High or High. One of which says 51CMs 1 segment and another which says 49CMs over 3 segments.
I have not been able to find a match with my tree with either of them despite hours of creating mirror trees.
I am hoping they may be a link to my Grandmother who I believe was adopted.
Cheers
Braytons
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Both are valid matches, I don't know if one is better than the other as such.
Ancestry puts them in total cM order, I have matches at 55/6, 52/2, 49/5, 43/3, 42/4.
They are in order 3rd cousin once removed, 3rd cousin once removed, 3rd cousin, 5th cousin, 3rd cousin.
Hope this helps!
Regards Margaret
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I have wondered this, and having read a lot have still never found an answer. I even wonder if I started a rootschat thread on this some months ago.
Martin
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Thank you both Margaret and Martin for your replies.
Margaret do you mean you have you been able to trace how these matches you mention are related? I admit I have yet to fully grasp how "removed" works in relation to cousins.
Martin, yes after I asked the question I thought about how Ancestry list them in order of CMs and maybe that should be a clue.
In my quest for my Grandmother's origins I am wondering if I am kidding myself that I will be able to find her mother/father. By definition there is no paper records so it could be literally anyone!
Braytons
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My daughter in law has found both of her unknown grandfathers through dna. Luckily descendants of both had tested.
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My grandmother was informally adopted ...luckily we had a paper trail but the DNA did throw up a 2nd cousin to my mother who was actually a half cousin they shared a grandmother not a grandfather ...also 3rd and 4th cousins in America with no obvious name links were connected to grandmas birth father .
You have to work on a process of elimination ....look at place of origins of shared matches if a specific village or region keeps cropping up it could be significant
Also eliminate the links that are through your birth parents and known grandparents and maybe the 3rd cousins not connected will give clues to who your grandmothers parents were
Good luck .
Any chance she was adopted by a family member ? What year are we talking about ?
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I found my earlier posting to which I referred.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=796843.msg6537777#msg6537777
This will also help:
https://isogg.org/wiki/CentiMorgan
Finally, on
genie1.com
"Regarding the 'largest cM', generally, the larger the biggest individual segment, the closer the relationship."
Martin
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Thank you both Margaret and Martin for your replies.
Margaret do you mean you have you been able to trace how these matches you mention are related? I admit I have yet to fully grasp how "removed" works in relation to cousins.
In my quest for my Grandmother's origins I am wondering if I am kidding myself that I will be able to find her mother/father. By definition there is no paper records so it could be literally anyone!
Braytons
These are confirmed matches, sharing as follows -
55/6, my 3G grandparents, her 2G grandparents, I am the 'removed'
52/2, my 2G grandparents, his 3G grandparents, he is the 'removed'
49/5, joint 2G grandparents
43/3, joint 4G grandparents
42/4, joint 2G grandparents
Descendants of your missing great grandparents would be your 2nd cousins if the same generation as you, or 2nd cousins removed.
51CMs 1 segment and 49CMs over 3 segments are approx what I have detailed above - you can see the discrepancies between the DNA shared, especially with the 5th cousin.
But at this level it is reasonable to say that the matches are valid and indeed Very high or High.
For cousin calculator try one or both of these -
http://www.cousincountry.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=180010891&sec_id=180004334
http://www.cousincountry.com/home/180004334/180004334/Cousin%20Chart%20Snippet%202.jpg
Regards Margaret
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Wow, it will take me a few hours to digest all your replies and its late now so will leave it till tomorrow.
In the mean time, thank you so much everyone for your replies and help.
Cheers
Braytons
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Just a footnote to the cousin calculation ...it works when common ancestor is actually a married couple
If you only have 1 parent in common you are half siblings ...and so down line ..on the ancestry DNA results 1 grandparente in common came out as 2nd cousin for us
1 great grandparent in common as 3rd cousin whereas on chart it would be 2nd cousins because assumption is that there would be a great grandmother and a great grandfather in common
Hope that makes sense .
Do let us know if you come up with something ...
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I think I've mentioned before that my closest match on MyHeritage must be a grandson of one of my uncles, from external evidence, although he hasn't responded to my emails. He matches me on 22 out of 23 chromosomes, and the biggest single segment is 82.4cM.
One of our mutual matches is the daughter of one of my 2nd cousins, and she matches me on only 6 chromosomes, the biggest segment 47.4cM.
If several people match you on the same branch of your family-tree - i.e. you have some known ancestors in common - does that mean that you should match each other on the same chromosome(s)? It seems to be more random than that.
Harry
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Just a footnote to the cousin calculation ...it works when common ancestor is actually a married couple
If you only have 1 parent in common you are half siblings ...and so down line ..on the ancestry DNA results 1 grandparente in common came out as 2nd cousin for us
1 great grandparent in common as 3rd cousin whereas on chart it would be 2nd cousins because assumption is that there would be a great grandmother and a great grandfather in common
Hope that makes sense .
Do let us know if you come up with something ...
My half second cousin once removed (her g.gran and my gran were half sisters) is shown on Ancestry as my 4th cousin. Interestingly we share less CMs than I do with some other matches, but (apart from my son and one of my cousin's children) none of the other matches seem keen on finding out who our joint ancestors are. Shame, I thought that was the whole point of having your DNA tested.
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Just a footnote to the cousin calculation ...it works when common ancestor is actually a married couple
If you only have 1 parent in common you are half siblings ...and so down line ..on the ancestry DNA results 1 grandparente in common came out as 2nd cousin for us
1 great grandparent in common as 3rd cousin whereas on chart it would be 2nd cousins because assumption is that there would be a great grandmother and a great grandfather in common
Hope that makes sense .
Do let us know if you come up with something ...
My half second cousin once removed (her g.gran and my gran were half sisters) is shown on Ancestry as my 4th cousin. Interestingly we share less CMs than I do with some other matches, but (apart from my son and one of my cousin's children) none of the other matches seem keen on finding out who our joint ancestors are. Shame, I thought that was the whole point of having your DNA tested.
Yes I am very diffident about approaching people who are matches. I am not sure what to write. It would be different if I had a pretty good idea how we are related but mostly its just the fact that they are said to be a "Very High" match. Funny isn't it, I was listening to a programme about DNA testing on BBC4 yesterday and they said people want to know if they are descended from Vikings or are related to Alexander the Great for instance! My motivation is far more banal, just want to know the origin of my Grandmother!
If I come up with something I will let everyone know immediately. :)
Braytons
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In the 6 months since I had my DNA analysed I've learnt a lot about the subject from internet reading, but I haven't tried contacting anybody. I thought I'd sit back and wait for them to contact me. So far I have heard from nobody! Perhaps my relatives and I have similar thought processes! I would reply in a very helpful manner to anyone who contacted me, but as has been said here elsewhere, a lot of the people who have their DNA analysed do it just to get the dubious ethnicity results and aren't interested in contacting relatives.
Martin
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I have contacted several of my closer matches - a couple have replied but most do not.
I agree with Martin that most test only to get their ethnicity results, many don't have a tree (online or otherwise), and don't seem interested. :-\
In my email to them I simply say that they and I have an estimated Xth to Xth cousin match and would they be interested in trying to find out how we connect. If they respond, I give further details.
Only one person has ever contacted me but I'm not really sure why as our estimated relationship was 'remote.'
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Perhaps Martin's reply was tongue in cheek, but I have to ask - Martin, did you test just for your etnicity?
With typical British reserve a large number of us will baulk at making the first move (contact) but someone has to otherwise what's it all for? Like all of you I've had mixed results, some reply with varying degrees of interest, some don't bother (their loss). I might be a shrinking violet in real life but as far as DNA testing's concerned I've given up waiting for others to contact me - I most definitely take the initiative.
Ruskie - the match might have been remote to you both but it could have been the highest one on your match's list. I do hope you took the time to reply.
Jane :-)
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I have contacted several of my closer matches - a couple have replied but most do not.
I agree with Martin that most test only to get their ethnicity results, many don't have a tree (online or otherwise), and don't seem interested. :-\
In my email to them I simply say that they and I have an estimated Xth to Xth cousin match and would they be interested in trying to find out how we connect. If they respond, I give further details.
Only one person has ever contacted me but I'm not really sure why as our estimated relationship was 'remote.'
I am obviously very lucky because the one person I did dare to write to replied almost immediately. He asked for any names that might be a clue and between us we discovered a link. His great grandfather married one of my great grandmother's sisters. What would that translate to xcousin relationships?
Maybe I should give up being a "shrinking violet" and email away!
Braytons
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There are a few that I've worked out which family branch we are descended from, mainly by clicking on View Match and then below that on "Shared Matches". Unfortunately, they are all from the same branch and I'm not interested enough to pursue that branch. I have all the information I need and that particular branch and their ancestors can be traced back through history to the late 1000s because at the time they were either Knights or otherwise just very wealthy, so their history is easily accessible on the internet.
I'm more interested in anyone that has a trace of Jewish DNA as I think that is how I will find out the origins of my g.grandfather. As they tend to be more distant matches and many of them don't even have a tree, never mind the locked or unlinked trees too, I've only found two or three that might be worth pursuing. I've written to 2 already with absolutely no response. I'm hoping, eventually, that a much closer match with Jewish DNA will pop up.
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What is very interesting is that I share 423Cms with the daughter of one of my cousins. My cousin's mother and mine were sisters. However, 89% England, Wales and Northwestern Europe compared to my cousin's daughter (1st cousin once removed) who only has 2% Great Britain. I have 6% Ireland and Scotland and she has 24% Ireland/Scotland/Wales. You would think that with a shared 423Cms, our ethnicity would be much closer.
I know Ancestry has been updating ethnicity and my cousin's daughter apparently hasn't updated hers - you have to click "Update" on your own DNA page to get the latest ethnicity, so that could make a difference.
However, I did my DNA with 23andMe too (Christmas present) and the results are very different. It shows I have 8.1% Scandinavian DNA, Ancestry states 0%, they break their results down differently to Ancestry and the rest is broadly similar.
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Familydar, no, mine was definitely for finding relatives, although I was bemused by the suggestion of Greek or even Albanian in me is puzzling.
Martin