RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: NormanE on Saturday 24 November 18 08:35 GMT (UK)
-
About 1920 my Ancestor, Ernest Napier Stephenson b 1890 took off with Sarah (Sally) Toogood.
They are known to have been living in Nelson Street Vancouver in May 1922 and that is all I know.
Please can anyone help me pick up the trail?
NormanE
-
Is he the same Ernest Napier STEPHENSON
Birth Registered Newcastle on Tyne, England, 1890
Mother's maiden name SANDERSON?
If so, he married Betty Ball KING in Queensland Australia in 1932
And he dies in Queensland 1960
Mother: Jane Hogarth SANDERSON
Father: John William STEPHENSON
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Good Morning Ambly
Thanks for your interest and reply
Yes. I know about Ernest's later life, its the period between 1920 and 1932 that's of interest. Both Ernest and Sarah(Sally) left family's behind in England and I wonder if there were any children from this relationship. Also I don't know their Canadian arrival details or if Ernest left Sarah in Canada, or they both arrived in Australia.
NormanE
-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C95R-45HR?i=141&cc=1368704
Is this also him?
Ernest Stephenson, arrived 09 Feb 1921 into NY in transit to Canada. Previously resident Montreal. Previously in the US (Maine) in 1914. Born Newcastle.
Can you give more info about Sally/Sarah Toogood?
-
Jorose
Thank you for your interest
I don't think the 1921 Ernest is "My" Ernest.
You mention the 1914 entry, "My" Ernest was being married on the 26th of August 1914 to Annie Anderson in England ( Aukland). He was then a Colliery Engineer not a Salesman or Sales Manager.
Sarah/Sally Toogood's maiden name was Nutchey and she was born in the last quarter of 1886 at Beverley Yorkshire. She married Thomas Hayes Toogood in 1908 at Sculcoates
Regards
NormanE
-
Jorose
Thank you for your interest
I don't think the 1921 Ernest is "My" Ernest.
You mention the 1914 entry, "My" Ernest was being married on the 26th of August 1914 to Annie Anderson in England ( Aukland). He was then a Colliery Engineer not a Salesman or Sales Manager.
I wouldn't discount the 1921 Passenger.....your Ernest did in fact identify as a Salesman in some Australian records: These are Electoral Rolls in Queensland (each time with wife Betty Ball:
1932, 1936, 1937: Bundaberg, Capricornia = Salesman
1943, 1949: Merthyr, Brisbane = Mechanic
1954, 1958: Sherwood, Moreton, QLD = Engineer
Ernest STEPHENSON 30, Salesman, married, British, born Newcastle England
Arriving New York 25 Feb 1921, out of Port of Spain, Trinidad on SS MARAVAL
In Transit home to Montreal, Canada
Last in US, in Maine, 1914
5', 7", Ruddy Complexion, Brown Hair, Blue Eyes
It doesn't say when in 1914 this Ernest was supposedly in the US nor how long he stayed there.
Cheers
AMBLY
-
I also don't think 1921 passenger Ernest is the one NormanE is looking for.
I believe his name is Ernest Frederick Stephenson born to Thomas Stephenson and Amy Dixon, but also apparently in Newcastle about 1890. He married a Winnifred B in New Brunswick Canada in 1920. He can be found in the 1919/20 Montreal City Directory as E Fred Stephenson and living at 316 Mackay, as is Thomas. I didn't check other years. Although there is no E F and Winnifred at this address in the 1921 Census, Thomas and Amy are there.
Anyway, food for thought.
PB
-
Got to run this by you all, there is a Jack and Sarah Stephenson leaving May 1920 going to Vancouver, both from Newcastle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2HGD-NQN
on the Canada Ocean Arrivals form, whilst Sarah's sister as relative is a Miss ? Turner address unknown, London which makes all this seem unlikely, wondered if someone could check the Canada Ocean Arrivals Form. Am I seeing things or is his brother Napier Stephenson
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n32/
He is an engineer on the passenger list but intended occupation is agricultural engineer.
The only Napier Stephenson I found was in the Australian Police Gazette 12 Mar 1930 Tomingley, New South Wales, Australia, right age, mechanic, from England but '' sometimes endeavours to make people believe he is American'' worked for the Texaco Oil company.
-
Have found them as Jack and Sallie Stephenson he has put Scottish heritage on the census form but an engineer. Address 12 98 10th Ave West
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n33/
-
Jack has put Napier as his brother.
I believe Miss Turner is Miss M Turner.
PB
-
Yet on the passenger list he gives contact as
Friend. Mr R.D. Wildwick (?) c/o M.C.Jessiman cnr 16th Ave & Heather (?)
-
I give up, what number image is it on the ocean arrivals.
Found it. no 1370
-
Contact on the Form 30A was for the country where he came from; the Vancouver one was for his destination.
PB
-
Good Morning Ambly
Thanks for your interest and reply
Yes. I know about Ernest's later life, its the period between 1920 and 1932 that's of interest. Both Ernest and Sarah(Sally) left family's behind in England and I wonder if there were any children from this relationship. Also I don't know their Canadian arrival details or if Ernest left Sarah in Canada, or they both arrived in Australia.
NormanE
Sarah died QLD:
1979 B94032 Sallie Stephenson parents Leonard Nutchey and Ellen Sophia Catton
Jamjar
-
Great find, Jamjar!
PB
-
He’s in Australia by 1927:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article172654597
Added: This has him in NSW from 1926, 4th column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article128687592
Jamjar
-
Possible?
1930 Voters List Parkes, Calare, NSW
Ernest Napier-Stephenson Engineer Victoria St
Sallie Napier-Stephenson Home Duties Victoria St
PB
-
Contact on the Form 30A was for the country where he came from; the Vancouver one was for his destination.
PB
The other addresses on the sheet are Canadian.... and 16th Ave is not an address one associates with Newcastle.
-
Contact on the Form 30A was for the country where he came from; the Vancouver one was for his destination.
PB
The other addresses on the sheet are Canadian.... and 16th Ave is not an address one associates with Newcastle.
May I gently mention that in New South Wales there are many local government areas that do include street names like 16th ave ... try it as a word ... for example Sixteenth .. I have living rellies at a NSW locality of First Ave .... born there 1915 still in same house in 2018 ... sold off several blocks over the decades ...
Likely though the form will give you the clues to sort out where that 16th Ave is.
JM living in NSW just south of Newcastle in the county of ... Northumbrrland ... yes .. more than one county by that name , more thsn one city also... :D
-
Contact on the Form 30A was for the country where he came from; the Vancouver one was for his destination.
PB
The other addresses on the sheet are Canadian.... and 16th Ave is not an address one associates with Newcastle.
May I gently mention that in New South Wales there are many local government areas that do include street names like 16th ave ... try it as a word ... for example Sixteenth .. I have living rellies at a NSW locality of First Ave .... born there 1915 still in same house in 2018 ... sold off several blocks over the decades ...
Likely though the form will give you the clues to sort out where that 16th Ave is.
JM
:). And in fact I found a fourth avenue in Newcastle (UK). ;) ;)
However, the rest of the addresses on the form are Canadian, so I feel the one next to jack Stephenson should be too.
-
I was still typing on my e reader re Newcastle and I err hit the post button ... I have added a PS ... but I wont re edit as it is an aside :D and does not affect the thread.
Well found on fourth ave Newcastle UK.
JM
-
I can’t find them entering Australia. I thought they’d be on NAA. 🤔
Jamjar
-
Perhaps came via east coasr port of arrival and not via Fremantle. The origins of the NAA index were focused on Fremantle 1920s arrivals. I have phoned my uncle and my cousin to get their thoughts ... retired archivists ... but I think they may be celebrating some old boys reunion ...
JM
-
Thank you, JM, I wasn’t aware of that with NAA.
Jamjar
-
From NormanE
I'm getting overwhelmed with what's going on, thank you for the interest and help. But Whats A V30?
and can I see it?. Is Sallie/Sally/Sarah Nutchey/Stephenson's arrival available too?
Norman
-
From NormanE
I'm getting overwhelmed with what's going on, thank you for the interest and help. But Whats A V30?
and can I see it?. Is Sallie/Sally/Sarah Nutchey/Stephenson's arrival available too?
Norman
Reply #7
-
I give up, what number image is it on the ocean arrivals.
Found it. no 1370
And a Sarah on page 1578.
I don’t think these are them.
Jamjar
-
Do you have his marriage cert to Betty Ball KING?
On Trove there are mentions of Miss Sallie Stephenson.
Jamjar
-
I give up, what number image is it on the ocean arrivals.
Found it. no 1370
And a Sarah on page 1578.
I don’t think these are them.
Jamjar
Well, I may stand corrected, as it’s possible that her sister Marjorie married in Sculcoates to a James TURNER March 1910.
-
For Jamjar
I have a copy of Ernest's marriage to Betty Ball King on 27 January 1932 at Gayndah Queensland.
A straightforward document confirming Ernest's parentage ( they have both died at this time). He is a Batchelor so no signs of an earlier marriage or death of Sallie. I have the Divorce papers taken out by his wife Annie ne Anderson. Petition filed 21 August 1923, Final Decree 15 September 1926.
I have never tried to find out if Thomas Hayes Toogood petitioned for divorce.
Trove is new to me can you please enlighten me?
Kind Regards
Norman
-
Norman, Trove is where we find the Australian newspaper articles. See my post in Reply #15.
It’s possible that he didn’t marry Sallie. Her death certificate would be interesting.
Jamjar
-
My apologies as I didn't realised it wouldn't take you directly to the Canada form I mentioned.
-
It looks a very specific S he signs his surname with on the form, do you have a doc. with his signature on?
Thought it would be the easiest way to look at Jack in case it is a dead end
-
No worries about the form, willsy. For those without an ancestry sub it is just like the old days.....page by page through the reels ;D.
Jack is in the Vancouver directly in 1921 at the address seen in the 1921 census and at the Nelson St address in 1923 as well as the earlier cited 1922. Not there after that.
An aside...the corner of 16th Ave and Heather in Vancouver isn't far from the present day Vancouver General Hospital. The W C J mentioned in the passenger manifest is still on Heather in the 1949 voters list.
PB
-
Thanks polarbear, I keep trying to post for those without a sub, never looked for these forms this way so learnt a bit more...must write the page nos.!
-
After Jamjar mentioned Sallie's sister, did have a look for her and she got divorced 1916, divorce papers are online, other than that, have not found anything else.
-
I have looked again at the records for Jack Stephenson and Sarah/Sallie going to Canada May 1920.
The records seem close to them being for Ernest Stephenson and Sarah Toogood
According to the divorce documents they took off in 1920.
In the 1921 census they were living almost next door to Nelson Street where the divorce papers said they were in May 1922.
Differences are Sarah age and Jack's Scottish Ancestry.
It seems to me that the No or possible option might be helped by knowing what documents were required for ship tickets and entry into Canada for "Empire" members.
Were passports required in 1920?
Norman
-
Hi,
They were British subjects, so no passport was required in that time frame.
Do you have the exact address on Nelson?
This is what appears in the Vancouver directories in 1922 and 1923.
https://bccd.vpl.ca/
DB
-
Dbree and others
WE have arrived
The 1923 Divorce Petition by Ernest Stephenson's wife Annie states "Ernest and Sally Toogood were living at 1873 Nelson Street, Vancouver in May 1922.
So it all falls into place and I now realise that it was pointed out to me that Napier Stephenson was mentioned in Jack's 1920 Arrival Declaration. He was named as Jack's brother but was Ernest in fact.
Ernest and Sallie obviously parted about 1930 since he married Betty Ball King in 1932. Sallie who died in 1979 (aged 94) outlived Ernest.
My Thanks to all of you who have helped and steered me to this conclusion.
Yet again Rootschat has ben a Boon
NormanE
-
Pleased you’re happy with the result, Norman.
One day, if you have a quid to spare, might be interesting to see what information is given on Sallie’s death cert. ;)
Jamjar
-
Great outcome. Pleased to have been able to help :).
PB