RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: mickawinn on Monday 26 November 18 21:03 GMT (UK)
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The above was born in Syria around 1838 and the first record I can find of him is 1869 when he married Hannah Jane OGDEN in Salford. Can anyone point me towards any records of his arrival in this country or whether there is any chance of finding Syrian records online?
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Naturalisation papers at TNA - downloadable (and previewable): http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7314734
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Find My Past has a passport registration for an Abdola Trad 1878 an 1888. Perhaps he is on shipping lists
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British Newspaper archive has an obituary
Abdallah Shackour Trad
obituary: 24 May 1905 Manchester, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
If you register you get 3 free articles
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
Maybe it talks about his homeland/an closer area?
IGI has RETIRED CALICO MERCHANT born est 1837
Birthplace Syria Nat Br Sub Turkey
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Not really an obituary, just a short death notice: "on 20th May 1905, at Southport, Abdallah Shackour Trad, late of Beyroot and Manchester, age 68". Interment at Southport Cemetery.
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Interment at Southport Cemetery.
Buried 24 May 1905. Shipping Merchant
Image(s) here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-897M-WQLQ?i=58&cat=1910607
Register of Graves
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G97M-WGRY?i=228&cat=1910607
Burial Annie Jane Trad, 24 November 1942
45344
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G97M-Q31Y?i=109&cat=1910607
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Not really an obituary, just a short death notice: "on 20th May 1905, at Southport, Abdallah Shackour Trad, late of Beyroot and Manchester, age 68". Interment at Southport Cemetery.
Beyroot is that Beirut now in Lebanon, which is part of greater Syria?
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Beyroot is that Beirut now in Lebanon, which is part of greater Syria?
An archaic spelling of Beirut, yes.
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"Beirut aristocratic “Seven Families” along with the Bustros, Fayad, Gebeili, Sursock, Tueni, and TRAD families, who constituted the traditional high society of Beirut"
The Lebanese government didn't keep birth, death and marriage reocrds until recently according to Family search. So finding a birth record might be hard, you'd need private family records?
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Thanks for all your help. The extra bits have added to the picture. I now have to move on to his son Theodore. I know his birth and have followed him through the various census. He seems to have had children with at least two woman but I cannot find any civil marriage record. The family legend is that he went off to fight with the Turks and was killed at Gallipoli but I have found an Army marriage record and a death record in Beyrout which may disprove this story. I have ordered the certificates so await the outcome.
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"The Trad family settled in Greater Syria from Yemen in the 10th century"
"Those who settled in Syria joined the Greek Orthodox Church"
A branch established the Trad Bank and another Branch the Trad Hospital in Beirut
6 members of the Trad family joined the Le Liban Masonic lodge between 1860 and 1900.
Alexandre Trad and Selim Trad were translators for the Russian Embassy and Le Liban Lodge members
Benjamin Trad was the chamberlain to the Sultan in Constinople in the 1860's
Elias Trad was a writer and was eployed on tribunals
The Trad family and the Sursock family frequently intermarried
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=cq6bBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&dq=trad+family+of+beirut&source=bl&ots=fYuOj8sVFn&sig=ffoijFURaUZJJxTZTCzWi_QjekU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjR9LW2mfXeAhWFe30KHXg-AWA4HhDoATAAegQICBAB#v=onepage&q=trad%20family%20of%20beirut&f=false
The Sursock family (SURSUQ) has a private archive, maybe you could look in it for evidence of you Abdallah Trad, just incase his mother was a Sursock? Read online for free.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/41913265?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
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Thanks for all your help. The extra bits have added to the picture. I now have to move on to his son Theodore. I know his birth and have followed him through the various census. He seems to have had children with at least two woman but I cannot find any civil marriage record. The family legend is that he went off to fight with the Turks and was killed at Gallipoli but I have found an Army marriage record and a death record in Beyrout which may disprove this story. I have ordered the certificates so await the outcome.
Is this the same Theodore Trad?
4th Volunteer Battalion, Devonshire Regiment 1899
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/27073/page/2549/data.pdf
Amended it does look like he died in Beirut in 1921-ish
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Theodore TRAD has become more of a mystery. I cannot find any attestation papers but have found mention of T TRAD in both the Devonshire Regiment and the Liverpool Regiment. According to the 1901 census that TRAD has a birth year of 1875 and was born in Torquay, Devon. My man was born in 1871 in Sale, Cheshire.
I can’t find a birth record for the Devon man and with such an unusual surname I am at a loss as to where to look next. I am still waiting for the overseas marriage and death certificates. Let’s hope they throw a bit more light on the subject!
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Records for Theodore Trad at the National Archives:
The question of his nationality http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9001125
Military records (Captain Theodore Trad, Middlesex Regiment) http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1076313
Captain Theodore Trad to Transit, Spain in 1916 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11758773
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Oh Shaun. You’ve just added more to the mix. Thanks it gives me some more possibilities.
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I have received a marriage cert for Theodore and he married Linda COURY (Local Subject) in August 1916 at the British Consulate in Alexandria. He was shown as a Bachelor and a Captain in the King's Liverpool Regiment and his father is Abdallah. That ties in with the 1901 census when he was at the Liverpool Reg barracks. It unfortunately leaves the TRAD who was in the Devonshire Reg a bit of a mystery, Theodore's death cert, 15 march 1922 in Beyrout shows that he was a merchant, cert number 42 in Beyrout. No cause of death or any relatives mentioned although the birth details, Sale, Cheshire and 28 December 1870 indicate that its the right man. Having tried Ancestry, Findmypast and a couple of other military I can't trace any other specific info to differentiate between the individual in both regiments.
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Appointment as temporary Captain in the service battalions:
Theodore Trad, late Lieutenant, 6th Battalion, The Devonshire Regiment. Dated 19th October, 1914.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28960/supplement/8855
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Garrison Battalions:
Liverpool Regiment
Temp. Capt. T. Trad, from Gen. List, to be temp. Capt. 14 Aug. 1915, but with seniority from 19 Oct. 1914.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29634/supplement/6204
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Hi Shaun I have seen these but not sure how to interpret them. He was in the Liverpool regiment in 1901 but by at least 1914 he is in the Devonshire regiment and gets promoted back to the Liverpool Reg. Am I completely misunderstanding it?
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I'm not sure about that 1901 census listing but your Theodore Trad was in South Africa with 5th Battalion, Rifle Brigade in 1902, attached from 4th Volunteer Battalion, Devon Regiment (per the South Africa medal rolls). He resigned his commission with the Devon regiment in January 1904 (per the Gazette).
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Lieutenant T Trad in the 1901 census (enumerated as born Torquay circa 1875) was at Fulwood Barracks in Preston.
Newspaper reports record that he was then attached to the Royal Lancashire Regiment. He went to South Africa later in the year to serve with the 5th Battalion,Rifle Brigade.
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Found his service number, 42325, but still can’t find a full military record. He seems to have been in Spain in 1916 where he was recorded to have gone to Alexandria for his marriage. This is among trade and commerce papers at Kew.
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As previously posted, his military service record is at Kew. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1076313
It hasn't been digitised. You can ask for a quote to have a copy made, or go to Kew to view it, or ask someone (someone in this forum?) to take a look at it next time they visit.
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Thanks Shaun. The Middlesex regiment put me off until I found his number. Never asked anyone before to look something up, do you start a separate post?
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Yes you could start a new thread in the common room - "Anyone going to Kew?" or something similar.
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Hi Shaun. I ordered the records from the National Archives. I asked only for any attestation or military service record but they sent me everything. Nothing about his lengthy service but these 2 were the only ones of any great interest. The codes mean nothing to me. I think that his early service, South Africa etc will remain a mystery. Presumably his service in the Far East was driven by his father’s nationality.
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Those files won't open for me - are they corrupted?
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Have you got an email address I can use. The file is from the NA soit should be OK.
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Let's see if I can post them:
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Just an update. I got a death certificate but there was no cause of death shown. I at long last obtained documents from the National Archives which related to a question of Theodore’s nationality. There was a disputed over his estate as he died intestate. The biggest revelation however was that he had shot himself in his hotel in 1923. I don’t suppose we will ever find out any detail but you never know.