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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: icini on Tuesday 27 November 18 15:36 GMT (UK)
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Hello: i hope you don't mind this long post - I'm trying to give as much information as possible in case anyone can point me in the right direction.
I have been on the trail of my 4X great grandmother- Jane Main. She was born circa 1818-1821 in Roxburgh depending on what sources i use.
On the 1841 census she is 20 years old living with Christina Sutherland 40, Agnes 45( both "independent" ). Also on the census is Robert 20, John 15. No mention of marital status or relationshoips between them all. The recorder started to write Jane Sutherland but changed it to Main. Between 1841 and 1853, Jane married ( or just said she did) John Smith, went to England where she had three boys - William, 1845, Robert Sutherland Smith 1846, John 1848. Then they were back in Edinburgh where she had Christina 1850, and Janet 1851. Jane died 1853 of decline ( no bloody wonder). On her son Robert's marriage certificate he put her MS name as Sutherland but on his death cert it is back to Main ( this from his step mother no less)
On the census they all say they were born in Roxburgh but the only BC for a Jane Main is to George Main and Elizabeth Routledge. I found an entry for that Jane Main and who she married and it was not my 4X great grandfather.
My questions - and I don't expect anyone to research for me, maybe just a suggestion where i could look)
1) would these circumstances mean she was adopted by the Sutherlands ? it seems unlikely to me as she was 20 on the census and if she had been adopted young i would think she would be called Sutherland.
2) She named two of her sons after John and Robert Sutherland. Sutherland is Robert's midde name. She named her daughter Christina so they must have bene close ?
3) Robert thought her MS was sutherland and put it on his marriage certificate. So he knew them too?
This Sutherland group disappear after the 1841 census and I can't find a marriage cert for John Smith and Jane Main. I'm thinking it may have been England.
To be sure there were two other Jane Mains in Roxburgh 1841 but i chose this one due to her son having Sutherland and thinking her MS was Sutherland . But maybe I'm making too many assumptions?
I guess what I'm hoping for is anyone who is connected to the Sutherland family, who may have information as to their movements , birth place, or even deaths. If I can somehow connect the name Sutherland to Main or Smith that may help me.
Sorry again for the long post, and thank you for any assistance. Here is the notes beside her name on the 1841 census under occupation but i can't make it out .
** I don't know why the image is upseide down- it was the right way when i posted it
Donna
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Think I have found the Sutherland sisters in 1851 Christian is the head age 53 Agnes 57 at Roxburgh St Kelso living with them is the Granddaughtet of Christian, Jane Sutherland age 7
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Hi: I'll go check it out. I thought I looked properly but maybe not
Thanks
Donna
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Hi again: It showed up when i just entered Jane, but not with Agnes or Christian - interesting
Also that the granddaughter is called jane . She would belong to Robert or John Sutherland but is named probably after Jane Main. I wonder what the relationship is there
Thanks again
Donna
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There is a death of a Christina Sutherland age 84 in 1878 in Kelso age a bit out but could be her also wondering if Jane Main is the illegitimate daughter of one of the Sutherland sisters or brothers using either her fathers name or mothers name and that is why there are the 2 different maiden names for her
And 2 deaths for Agnes Sutherland in Kelso one age 86 in 1876 the other 1878 age 88
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Have you seen the 1818 baptism at Kelso of Janet Main daughter of Alexander Main and Jane Aitchison? Might that be your Jane, misrecorded, mistranscribed, or under a name that changed? I see from the 1851 census that your Jane gave her birthplace then as Kelso, Roxburghshire.
It is possible that if Jane was taken in by the Sutherland family there could have been a family connection.
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Have you seen the 1818 baptism at Kelso of Janet Main daughter of Alexander Main and Jane Aitchison? Might that be your Jane, misrecorded, mistranscribed, or under a name that changed? I see from the 1851 census that your Jane gave her birthplace then as Kelso, Roxburghshire.
It is possible that if Jane was taken in by the Sutherland family there could have been a family connection.
Although checking the 1841 census it looks as though this child was with her parents in 1841:
https://www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79303204
I suspect that your best bet might be if you could find someone else researching the various Main families at Kelso. Even with incomplete records of births in the parish registers there may be a clue to where Jane might fit in.
I had a quick look in the Borders Family History Society's book of Kelso Abbey gravestone inscriptions. There are quite a number of Main stones, though none that immediately jumped out.
If Jane was illegitimate it's very likely that her birth was recorded in the unindexed kirk session minutes, rather than the parish registers of baptisms. It may be worth checking the Kelso kirk session minutes for the right period.
A lot of illegitimate births can be traced using the paternity cases indexed at https://www.scottishindexes.com
But the indexes mainly cover later than the period you need.
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Again from the Scottish Indexes site here is the Sutherland family from 1841-1861:
1841 - https://www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79304170
1851 - https://www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=79306168
1861 - https://www.scottishindexes.com/61transcript.aspx?houseid=79308135
I've listed 1841 and 1851 here, which I know have already been spotted, because it's a handy way of comparing the family across time, and with the new 1861 census info. This website has great coverage of Scottish Borders census returns, including free transcripts, from 1841-1861.
Checking the 1871 census transcripts in Ancestry finds Agnes (80) and Christina Sutherland (77) at 117 Roxburgh Street, Kelso. You should be able to download the census image from ScotlandsPeople.
Christian/Christina's death certificate should be worth checking, for her parents' names etc.
Good luck!
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Hi Everyone: First thank you for your replies and advise. It's strange but when i tried searching SP for Christina and Agnes all i got was the " sorry there are no records ...." so don't know if it was a glitch this am or not.
I looked at the 1851 census and Christina's DC But no tie in with the "Main" name. I wish I could find some sort of MC for her . I was lucky to get her DC record despite it being 1853 but all it said was buried in the old Calton burial ground. I contacted them but they could not find a more precise location- they thought she was one of those reburied when they built the road. He son died 1857 and when i contacted them again i got fabulous directions as to where i would find him. John Smith was a tailor and I did read Calton was a "trades" cemetery. I did wonder if her name could have been Janet as well. And if she was illegitimate her birth may not have been recorded in her home parish or at all. hopefully i will be able to connect to other "Main' researchers. My sister and i have considered actually paying for a professional. Meanwhile will check those indices
Thanks again everyone
Donna
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Donna if Jane was illegitimate then Main could be her fathers surname which she went by so you may not find a connection on record but through DNA I feel her mum was possibly Christian with the fact she named her daughter after her and that could explain why her son put Sutherland as her MS I am guessing he was young she died but he knew his grandmother Sutherland
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I can't believe i didn't think of that. See sometimes you need to throw it out there to get new perspectives!! I have had my DNA done- both Mt-DNA and autosomal - so I think I should look through the matches for Sutherland for the maternal line! Thank you
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As I said there's a good chance an illegitimate birth would be recorded in the unindexed kirk session minutes, which can be searched fairly quickly, though you may need a professional researcher to do this for you. At this time it was common in my experience for the kirk session of a parish to quiz mothers of illegitimate children. Normally you will get a father identified eg name and occupation. So do follow this up.
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After the death of Jane MAIN, 1853, what marriage do you have for John SMITH.....when, where and name of bride please?
Census 1841 at Roxburgh Street Eastside
SUTHERLAND Agness 45yrs independent b. Roxburgh
SULHAM Christian 40yrs independent b. Roxburgh
SULHAM Robert 20yrs slater app. b. Roxburgh
DAVIDSON Robert 45yrs skiner ap. b. Kelso
SUTHERLAND John 15yrs slater app. b. Roxburgh
MAIN Jane 20yrs dress m b. Roxburgh
(a closer look at the image gives better transcription, as you have given)
Census 1841 at Roxburgh Street Eastside
MARIE John 56yrs labourer b. Roxburgh
MARIE Margaret 55yrs b. Scotland
MAIN Janet 20yrs b. Roxhurgh
MAIN Robert 20yrs plaster app. b. Roxburgh
YOUNG Madelina 40yrs seamstress b. Scotland
YOUNG Madelina 20yrs b. England
BRODIE Mary 17yrs b. Scotland
(would a closer look at the image show MARIE to be MAIN?
Census 1851 at 8 Dunbar Street (Edinburgh?)
SMITH John 27yrs tailor (journeyman) b. Kelso
SMITH Jane 31yrs b. Kelso
SMITH William 6yrs b. England
SMITH Robert S 5yrs b. England
SMITH John 3yrs b. England
SMITH Christina 1yrs b. Edinburgh
SMITH Janet 2/12 b. Edinburgh
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On the 1841 census it reads Robert "Do' under Christian Sutherland which i believe means " same last name as above" So Robert Sutherland.After Jane died in 1853 her son William died in 1857 age 14. Robert Smith her son married Elizabeth McCallum in 1871 and died 1874. Son John Smith married in Canada and died in Canada. Christina , my ggg grandmother married James Duncan, and I know nothing about Janet. Jane's husband John Smith married Jane Primrose in Edinburgh , died 1875. living at 2 Advovate's Close.
Donna
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Is it the 1873 marriage for John SMITH and Jane PRIMROSE....years after the death of mother Jane?
Who raised the children of Jane and John SMITH?
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I don’t know. I saw that The new wife was also from Kelso so he may have gone back home. Or to England. He may have hired somebody. They had money.