RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 29 November 18 17:00 GMT (UK)
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I have seen an image of John Hoadley's grave in Greenwood cemetery Zanesville, Muskingum County, Ohio, USA. He died on 26 June 1878. The grave of his daughter is next to him.
Anyway, it is so badly worn I cannot read what it says on the gravestone. Could possibly help me? Thanks.
PS I have been in touch with the website where I found the image and they could not help me with a transcription.
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Reference for others.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/43374135
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As you can see it is very worn.
His brother is in the next plot and that one is even worse!
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You might be better having this post moved to Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition - they might be able to play about with the image and help you out.
Sandra
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Can you do that for me please?
Thanks.
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Just a thought - have you contacted Greenwood Cemetery to see what records they have for the burials?
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Can you do that for me please?
Thanks.
Sarah (administrator) will be along a little later Gibby.
Sandra
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Haven't thought of that.
Will look them up.
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Another thought - have you tried to contact the person who uploaded the photograph?
Added: she appears to have an e-mail contact address.
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I'll try that too, thanks.
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This morning I have created an account on Find a Grave and sent in a photo request.
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804480.msg6627550#msg6627550
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Looks like it could be some where in Yorkshire............. ???
Obituary for Miss Ann Hoadley, mentions Halifax Yorkshire.
The Times Recorder - Zanesville Ohio - 27 March 1912 - Page 7
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/25840192/miss_ann_hoadley/
Sandra
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I said a couple of posts ago that Farnham is near Harrogate in Yorkshire.
John and two of his children are in the same cemetery in Ohio.
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If you would link your previous posts, we would all know the details.
Here is one that I found :- https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804093.0
So all you want to know is - if John's third wife Hannah was buried with him ??? So we need to know what her details are ?
Sandra
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That's it, yes.
Back later, I need to find something to eat now.
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So you have no trace of the third wife Hannah and suspect she did not travel to the USA (according to reply 21 on the other thread)
The obituary for daughter Elizabeth says "she came to this country with her parents when she was young". Of course that could be an error and the informant was misinformed ???
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804093.18
Haven't attached the obit because I know you have a lot of info on the family in the USA.
Sandra
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So you have no trace of the third wife Hannah and suspect she did not travel to the USA (according to reply 21 on the other thread)
The obituary for daughter Elizabeth says "she came to this country with her parents when she was young". Of course that could be an error and the informant was misinformed ???
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804093.18
Haven't attached the obit because I know you have a lot of info on the family in the USA.
Sandra
There is no trace at all of Hannah on the US census. I know when John and his children travelled to the US because I was given the info some time ago, probably a distant cousin.
I need to look at the passenger lists to see if I can see the family and I haven't just dreamt up that information.
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As you have seen on the other thread the first two wives of John died in Halifax along with some children before he went to the US.
John and his surviving daughters are buried in the same Ohio cemetery.
I am still waiting to see if the lady who posted the picture on the find a grave website can help me with what it says.
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New York Passenger List under Headley - 19 May 1842 on the Russel Glover.
John Headley aged 50 years - Fanny aged 22 years, Wm Headley aged 19 years, Annie 18 years and Sarah 12 years.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVPF-QHWW
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-5L9R-41?i=299&cc=1849782
Sandra
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As we appear to have lost Hannah into the ether :-\ Can I ask a stupid question, please?
I can't access the passenger lists for 1842, as my subscription only covers UK records - so I'll ask the question - who actually appears on that list with Thomas?
The only headstones I can see for the surname "Hoadley" in Zanesville are Ann (1823-1912), John (1794-1878) and William (1786-1843). Can I assume, therefore that Elizabeth married in USA? And what happened to Sarah, born 1829?
AND, who is William, aged 19?
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His brother William is my direct ancestor and he emigrated with his family in 1842. They travelled to Milwaukee, Wisconsin then they all settled in various US states.
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As we appear to have lost Hannah into the ether :-\ Can I ask a stupid question, please?
I can't access the passenger lists for 1842, as my subscription only covers UK records - so I'll ask the question - who actually appears on that list with Thomas?
The only headstones I can see for the surname "Hoadley" in Zanesville are Ann (1823-1912), John (1794-1878) and William (1786-1843). Can I assume, therefore that Elizabeth married in USA? And what happened to Sarah, born 1829?
AND, who is William, aged 19?
Please feel free to ask a stupid question. I do it all the time.
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As I have already said first Hannah and second wife Sarah died in Halifax, UK and were buried there BEFORE John travelled with the surviving children.
Ann Hoadley never married.
William is John's brother and my direct ancestor.
Elizabeth married Amos Piatt Josselyn and they are buried in the same place as the Hoadley clan I have just listed.
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As we appear to have lost Hannah into the ether :-\ Can I ask a stupid question, please?
I can't access the passenger lists for 1842, as my subscription only covers UK records - so I'll ask the question - who actually appears on that list with Thomas?
The only headstones I can see for the surname "Hoadley" in Zanesville are Ann (1823-1912), John (1794-1878) and William (1786-1843). Can I assume, therefore that Elizabeth married in USA? And what happened to Sarah, born 1829?
AND, who is William, aged 19?
The passenger list is linked in the reply 29 above
Elizabeth Hoadley married A P Josselyn and is buried Woodlawn Cemetery.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6259860
Sarah married Andrew Jackson Hahn 30 March 1848.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8608250
Sandra
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For reference...............
Brother William Hoadley - 1786 - 233 June 1843
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/43374278/william-hoadley
Sandra
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OK - so William aged 19 is probably William "Spencer" on the 1841 census and therefore son of Sarah the second wife - that fits ;)
And there is Elizabeth aged 10
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As we appear to have lost Hannah into the ether :-\ Can I ask a stupid question, please?
I can't access the passenger lists for 1842, as my subscription only covers UK records - so I'll ask the question - who actually appears on that list with Thomas?
The only headstones I can see for the surname "Hoadley" in Zanesville are Ann (1823-1912), John (1794-1878) and William (1786-1843). Can I assume, therefore that Elizabeth married in USA? And what happened to Sarah, born 1829?
AND, who is William, aged 19?
The passenger list is linked in the reply 29 above
Elizabeth Hoadley married A P Josselyn and is buried Woodlawn Cemetery.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6259860
Sarah married Andrew Jackson Hahn 30 March 1848.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8608250
Sandra
I already have that information, thanks anyway.
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You have the information but others are asking the questions - you would notice that was written in reply to BumbleB !!!!!
Sandra
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I don't believe the third wife Hannah was ever in the USA so therefore the headstone inscription would not help your search for her.
Sandra
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I would tend to agree with Sandra - John travelled with 5 children, the youngest of which was 10 years old - I don't think that Hannah travelled to the US. So did she die in UK, or what?
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I've just been looking for Yorkshire deaths for her but so far nothing.
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Yes, I can't readily spot her, but I had narrowed it down to Halifax. :-\
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I'm not sure if this is known (various threads) but the tree that I mentioned on the other thread has Hannah Crowther's birth name as Beach and on the 1851 at HO107/2298/141/1* with two daughters.
* as Hoadley
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I would tend to agree with Sandra - John travelled with 5 children, the youngest of which was 10 years old - I don't think that Hannah travelled to the US. So did she die in UK, or what?
How many times do I have to say that the first two wives of John who were Hannah and Sarah along with a couple of children died in Halifax BEFORE John left the UK. There is Hannah Hoadley (formerly Crowther, widow) on the probate calendar who died in Bradford in 1857. It seems to fit what I'm looking for as she was married to man with the surname Crowther before her marriage to John. Her birth surname was Beach.
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Feel like I'm going round in circles having to repeat myself.
I do know however that you are trying to understand it all and help me.
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I'm not sure if this is known (various threads) but the tree that I mentioned on the other thread has Hannah Crowther's birth name as Beach and on the 1851 at HO107/2298/141/1* with two daughters.
* as Hoadley
She never left England!
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I have already given this info many times.
None of John's wives left England with him.
I did read somewhere that John left a wife behind but I cannot remember where ???
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And there is this -
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I did read somewhere that John left a wife behind but I cannot remember where ???
She was in Halifax in 1851 ::)
Added - I think you've got her BB
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Gibby1968 - please don't keep getting so up-tight. YOU keep asking the question, and WE endeavour to answer them.
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Good one BB. Think everyone has spent a lot of time and effort on the last thread (24 November) and this one to try and help.
Think we can safely say "completed" ;)
Sandra
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Just been told that the OP had already mentioned this on another thread - it would have helped all of us to be given this fact.
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I have already stated that I had another thread going about the wives that died before.
I think that one can be closed now. I am going to follow the Bradford connection and see where it leads me.
I didn't link the two threads as I do not know how to. That is why I kept repeating myself as I was constantly asked the same questions. If only you had looked at the other thread you would know the answers to the questions you were all asking.
I can only assume that the second Hannah was abandoned by John and ended up in Bradford.
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I have already stated that I had another thread going about the wives that died before.
I think that one can be closed now. I am going to follow the Bradford connection and see where it leads me.
I didn't link the two threads as I do not know how to. That is why I kept repeating myself as I was constantly asked the same questions. If only you had looked at the other thread you would know the answers to the questions you were all asking.
I can only assume that the second Hannah was abandoned by John and ended up in Bradford.
Apologies, so it's all our fault!!! :-X :-X Well :-* :-* So, perhaps, do your own research :-*
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To link a thread -
navigate to it, click on the url address in the address bar and copy it. Then paste into your post.
eg
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I was in the middle of a sentence when I had to disappear for something to eat.
Can't remember what I was going to say ???
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To link a thread -
navigate to it, click on the url address in the address bar and copy it. Then paste into your post.
eg
Thanks Gadget.
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Good one BB. Think everyone has spent a lot of time and effort on the last thread (24 November) and this one to try and help.
Think we can safely say "completed" ;)
Sandra
It will be completed when I have solved the puzzle. However I don't think any more replies are necessary. I will be following up the Bradford connection to see where that goes.
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Gibby1968 - please don't keep getting so up-tight. YOU keep asking the question, and WE endeavour to answer them.
I am not uptight! I am just fed up of giving info I have already given.
I will be following the Hannah who died in Bradford to see if she is the missing wife or whether it is a coincidence that she married a man Crowther and became his widow.
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Gibby1968 - please don't keep getting so up-tight. YOU keep asking the question, and WE endeavour to answer them.
I am not uptight! I am just fed up of giving info I have already given.
I will be following the Hannah who died in Bradford to see if she is the missing wife or whether it is a coincidence that she married a man Crowther and became his widow.
Gibby - please read that probate record again :) Hannah died in 1857 as Hannah Hoadley, formerly Crowther = she was Hannah Crowther (widow) and then became Hannah Hoadley when she married John Hoadley. I suggest that you purchase the will.
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1841 Census - HO107/1300/7 folio 29 page 23 - Halifax
Sarah Crowther - 24 - Milliner
Mary - 22
William - 20
Jane - 12
Elizabeth - 9
1851 Census - HO107/2298 folio 141 page 1, and folio 142 page 2 - Halifax
Hannah Hoadley - 56 - married
Jane Crowther - 22 - daughter
Elizabeth Crowther - 19 - daughter
1861 census - RG9/2951 folio 61, page 1 - Manchester Workhouse Infirmary
Jane Crowther - 32 - born Halifax - Hospital Nurse
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Gibby
We have given you a considerable amount of information and I'm not sure that you've noticed it. I gave ref to the 1851 census and BB gave the probate info. You then seemed to not even take note of it and no thanks were given. You then stated that you knew that she'd not left England. It would have been best to have mentioned this in your first post. Also, given that you stated a few posts in that you only wanted to know when Hannah Crowther died and was buried, why did you start this topic on the US board?
Could I suggest that you write all this up and read what you have before starting yet another thread on the same subject.
Gadget
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I see that your original post on this topic was about interpreting a gravestone on the FindaGrave site.
I have seen an image of John Hoadley's grave in Greenwood cemetery Zanesville, Muskingum County, Ohio, USA. He died on 26 June 1878. The grave of his daughter is next to him.
Anyway, it is so badly worn I cannot read what it says on the gravestone. Could possibly help me? Thanks.
PS I have been in touch with the website where I found the image and they could not help me with a transcription.
Sandra started a thread on this elsewhere:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804480.0
I don't think we found very much.
Gadget
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Sandra started a thread on this elsewhere:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804480.0
I don't think we found very much.
Gadget
The threads were linked earlier in this post Gadget. Reply 11 linked to the gravestone inscription and reply 14 linked to the earlier thread 22 November Yorkshire (West Riding)
Sandra
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I know you did, Sandra :).
I was drawing attention to it again as Gibby seemed to have missed it or not found it relevant, since no acknowledgement was made to you :-\
Gadget
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Just wondering, Gibby1968, whether you have any further thoughts on this subject? :-\
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As I said much earlier I am going to follow up Hannah Hoadley who died in Bradford.
Busy doing other stuff today so I haven't given it much thought.
I got sick of the way I was being treated by certain members who have replied to this thread. Everything started off so well and then they turned on me :-\
I don't think there's much more to say on the subject.
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That's possibly true! :-X
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Not sure if you have this but it would be worth getting the death cert:
Hannah Hoadley, Q2, 1857, Bradford. 9b, 45.
This would probably be the best route, in addition to the will.
Gadget
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I intend to follow this up.
If Hannah was abandoned by John I wonder how/why she ended up in Bradford?
I have been doing a bit of work on the family she had with Mr Crowther. I need to find out who he was and when/where he died.
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It is possible that Hannah had been married to William Crowther.
3 January 1847 - Manchester Cathedral
George Cawthorne. Father: Joseph, Manufacturer
Mary Ann Crowther. Father: William, Upholsterer.
Witness: Sarah Crowther
15 September 1847 - Manchester Cathedral
Edwin Proctor. Father: Robert, Manufacturer
Sarah Crowther. Father: William, Upholsterer
Witness: Jane Crowther
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If Hannah was abandoned by John I wonder how/why she ended up in Bradford?
We know she was in Halifax in 1851 with (2? of) her daughters. So she moved between then and 1857. Could she have moved to live with one of them?
I'm busy at the moment so haven't been able to follow them.
Gadget
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It is possible that Hannah had been married to William Crowther.
3 January 1847 - Manchester Cathedral
George Cawthorne. Father: Joseph, Manufacturer
Mary Ann Crowther. Father: William, Upholsterer.
Witness: Sarah Crowther
15 September 1847 - Manchester Cathedral
Edwin Proctor. Father: Robert, Manufacturer
Sarah Crowther. Father: William, Upholsterer
Witness: Jane Crowther
I did come across that and wonder if he was the right man :-\
The Crowther children were Jane, Sarah and Mary. I got these names from the probate calendar along the spouses of two of the daughters. Jane was a spinster.
I also vaguely remember when I first heard about John Hoadley that he was a wood turner from Bradford. I don't remember where I got this information. That is so annoying as it would tie in with Hannah.
I'll have to see if I can find John in any trade directories.
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John Hoadley is listed as a Wood Turner on all the baptism entries for his children. No occupation is shown on his first two marriages, and I don't think we have seen the actual marriage entry for his 1838 marriage (the transcription for the Marriage Licence does not show any occupation).
Not quite sure why Bradford is significant for John Hoadley - first marriage was in Huddersfield and the others in Halifax, plus all the baptisms were in Halifax.
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I know ???
Perhaps you can now see why I'm confused.
I think I was told about the Bradford connection by a distant cousin who may have got her information wrong.
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You may well be right that your cousin was confused. BUT we do know that Hannah died in Bradford in 1857. Her death certificate and/or will may give further clues.
She appears to be confused as to her birthplace anyway - 1841 census says that she was born in Yorkshire, 1851 says Horton, Staffordshire (however, there is also a Horton in Bradford). :-\
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I know. That doesn't help either.
I've come across many census returns where a person has acquired a middle name that wasn't on the previous one and the birthplace has also changed.
John is not the only elusive person I am researching. I'll never understand why some are a doddle to find and others drive me round the bend >:(
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BUT it would be SO boring if everything fell into place easily :)
However, Hannah is only an appendage as far as John Hoadley is concerned - no children from their marriage so no direct lineage. :)
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Ah, is the Bradford connection because someone found a baptism at St Peter, Bradford?
19 October 1810 - John Hoadley son of Thomas Hoadley of Bradford - Turner.
However, there is no indication, as there is on other baptism entries, that John was born earlier than 1810.
Farnham, North Yorkshire - 22 March 1794 - John, son of Thomas Hoadley - Husbandman.
Farnham, North Yorkshire - 16 April 1780 - Thomas Hoadley marries Fanny Burniston (John's first child is Frances :-\ :-\ )
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The Bradford connection for John is wrong.
His branch all came from Farnham, Harrogate, Yorkshire and he married in Halifax and Huddersfield.
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I know ???
Perhaps you can now see why I'm confused.
I think I was told about the Bradford connection by a distant cousin who may have got her information wrong.
I was just aiming to confirm or refute the Bradford connection, which you mentioned in the first instance :-* :-X
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Only mentioned it as I have a vague recollection that on some record or other it said John Hoadley, wood turner from Bradford.
I am now turning my attention to Hannah who died in Bradford to see what I can find.