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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: Alberbury on Saturday 01 December 18 21:18 GMT (UK)
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https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NVxiAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=shropshire+a+falcon+banner+at+agincourt&source=bl&ots=Qg3GJ05eWP&sig=LdP_ThFG53zY6_CBFWxpb68sT6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjw_fCeiszeAhWBTMAKHSZ9BAQQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=shropshire%20a%20falcon%20banner%20at%20agincourt&f=false
The Battaile of Agincourt ... The Miseries of Queene Margarite ... Wife of ...
By Michael Drayton
Shropshire m a Falcon towring in the Ayre
Do we have any specialists who could post an image of this flag?
All Counties listed.
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A Hundred Years on they were waving white flags! ;D
Skoosh.
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There is a note applied to that piece of text:
e Expressing the loftinesse of the mountaines in that Shiere, on which many Hawkes were wont to airy.
I would suggest, therefore, that the banner would be a falcon on a blue background?
But banners would normally be flown by Kings, Princes, Dukes, Noblemen and Knights.
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Drayton wrote this as an "epic" poem some two hundred years after the event. He seems to have had a special interest in the topography of England and Wales so he has used "Poetic Licence" to ascribe banners to each of the counties of his time and to treat the Anglo-Welsh army of 1415 as if it were made up of contingents from each shire, which would have been the case with the Militia units of the Tudor period.
In reality of course the army consisted of the various barons and their followers and would have fought under their banners. (see the reference to the Fenwick Roll in the article on Agincourt at "www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/news-grants/news/item/119-the-battle-of-agincourt".
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https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&hs=HS6&channel=fs&biw=1366&bih=616&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=KKcDXJbyAqP1xgPF77jwDw&q=shropshire+coat+of+arms&oq=shropshire+coat+of+arms&gs_l=img.3..0j0i5i30.695673.697029..698825...0.0..0.98.836.9......0....1..gws-wiz-img.SkJA8fYop60
shropshire coat of arms
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&biw=1366&bih=616&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=76kDXIPvIKnZgAbZxJLIBw&q=falcon+coat+of+arms&oq=falcon+coat+of+arms&gs_l=img.3..0.311378.322081..323277...0.0..0.109.1768.11j7......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i7i30j0i7i5i30j0i67.LfK4DX77kBM
falcon coat of arms
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The Shropshire coat-of-arms date from 1895 (adopted 1896), and was based on the arms of the Borough of Shrewsbury with the addition of erminois (gold field with black "tail spots").
The flag of Shropshire, based on the coat-of-arms, was adopted in 2012.
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The Shropshire coat-of-arms date from 1895 (adopted 1896), and was based on the arms of the Borough of Shrewsbury with the addition of erminois (gold field with black "tail spots").
The flag of Shropshire, based on the coat-of-arms, was adopted in 2012.
1415
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Hi Alberbury,
In reply to KGarrad's explanation of the Shropshire flag you make the cryptic observation "1415". Do you mean you disagree with his dates or that you still think the flag described by Drayton existed in 1415 ?
Can you be clearer on what information you want ?
Maec
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http://www.medievalsoldier.org/about/agincourt-600/the-english-army-in-1415/english-army-table/
English Army Table
Thomas Corbet Esquire
Arms of the Corbet baronets of Moreton Corbet, based on the arms of the medieval Corbets.[1] The raven was used by most branches of the Corbet family, whose name means "little crow."[2]
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Hi Alberbury,
In reply to KGarrad's explanation of the Shropshire flag you make the cryptic observation "1415". Do you mean you disagree with his dates or that you still think the flag described by Drayton existed in 1415 ?
Can you be clearer on what information you want ?
Maec
Most of the Counties listed are still using the same flag to this day. Shropshire used something different. What did this flag, banner, or ensign look like?
Thanks Alberbury.
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Medieval armies were private armies, of noble people.
Consequently they would bear the arms and banners of their Lord.
Very few counties had recognisable arms until the late 19th century.
The first arms granted to a County Council were in 1889.
Under heraldic law in England, arms are not granted to places as such, but only to the corporate bodies that govern them. Accordingly, although arms and devices were associated with counties from the eighteenth century onward, there were no official grants until the establishment of county councils in 1889.
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http://www.discoverbritainstowns.co.uk/news/oswestry-welsh-border-market-town/
An interesting feature of the church is the Yale Memorial at the end of the north wall. This commemorates the Yale family which endowed Yale University. The church has two fonts, the older at the north wall dating from 1662. This font shows the crest of the Lloyd family, a double headed eagle. The Holy Roman Emperor granted the crest to the Lloyd’s to mark their dedication to the Crusades. Colonel Lloyd, Governor of the Castle, presented the font bearing the crest in 1662, in gratitude for the restoration of the King. Parliamentarians occupied the church during the Civil War. As a result it suffered damage and was re-built in 1670s.
Llwyd Mansion on Cross Street is a Grade I listed timber-framed building dating from the late C15th. A notable feature is the irregular arrangement of the windows. The building is a Scheduled Ancient Monument.
http://www.discoverbritainstowns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/oswestry27.jpg
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https://johngswogger.wordpress.com/2017/09/19/the-llwyd-eagle/