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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: ballydw on Saturday 01 December 18 23:47 GMT (UK)
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John king b 24 nov 1906 to mother catherine king no father listed loughlinstown rathdown district dublin. Married bridget o brien early 1930' s
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I have John King born 24th Nov 1906 to Parents Kate Kelly & John Patrick King.
No father listed on birth certificate (illegitimate), mother is Catherine King-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01721/1681078.pdf
Mother Kate King died July 1907 Reg District Rathdrum.
That Kate King is wife of labourer so not mother of above John King-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05523/4548276.pdf
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deleted - I hadn't read what you had carefully enough.
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Rathdrum Workhouse- http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Rathdrum/
Registers online-
https://www.wicklow.ie/Living/Services/Arts-Heritage-Archives/Archives/Collections/Workhouse-Registers
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Tks Agadowey. I was given a slip of paper today with the info I had posted which proves to be incorrect from the aspect of father being John King & mother Kate King (nee Kelly) no wonder I couldnt find a marriage.
John King b.1906 ended up in an industrial school in Greenmount Cork. The info I received from his 2 elderly daughters who knew nothing of his early beginnings & understandably would like to know.
Is there any way of sourcing information regarding his Mother Catherine King?
In 1911 I found a John King age 4 & Kathleen King age 5 Boarders in a house b.dublin city Living in House 4 Irishtown Lower Straffan Kildare obviously fostered out. thank you
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You said "Son John b.1906 is in Dominican Convent Kilpoole Parish East Wicklow Urban obviously an Orphan1911 census" then "In 1911 I found a John King age 4 & Kathleen King age 5 Boarders in a house b.dublin city Living in House 4 Irishtown Lower Straffan Kildare obviously fostered out."
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Straffan/Irishtown__Lower/539563
I can't see a John King in Wicklow age 5 but there is one 8 years old
Seems as though you are just trying to connect any John King the right age :-\
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Rathdrum Workhouse- http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Rathdrum/
Registers online-
https://www.wicklow.ie/Living/Services/Arts-Heritage-Archives/Archives/Collections/Workhouse-Registers
tks aghadowey will take some time to study registers.
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You said "Son John b.1906 is in Dominican Convent Kilpoole Parish East Wicklow Urban obviously an Orphan1911 census" then "In 1911 I found a John King age 4 & Kathleen King age 5 Boarders in a house b.dublin city Living in House 4 Irishtown Lower Straffan Kildare obviously fostered out."
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Straffan/Irishtown__Lower/539563
I can't see a John King in Wicklow age 5 but there is one 8 years old
Seems as though you are just trying to connect any John King the right age :-\
Correct aghadowey was looking in vain in light of your previous info and saw afterwards the John King in Dominican convent was born S America. So I dont know how John arrived from somewhere in Dublin area to Cork.?
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The Rathdrum Registers might help finding Kate King who died in 1907 but John King, son of Catherine King, was born in RATHDOWN, Co. Dublin-
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Rathdown/
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The Rathdrum Registers might help finding Kate King who died in 1907 but John King, son of Kate King, was born in RATHDOWN, Co. Dublin-
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Rathdown/
Do you think the Kate King who died in 1907 was Johns mother?
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Why would you possibly think that the Kate King who died in Rathdrum (a married woman) be the unmarried mother of John King an illegitimate child born in Rathdown ???
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My error
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Tks Agadowey. I was given a slip of paper today with the info I had posted which proves to be incorrect from the aspect of father being John King & mother Kate King (nee Kelly) no wonder I couldnt find a marriage.
John King b.1906 ended up in an industrial school in Greenmount Cork. The info I received from his 2 elderly daughters who knew nothing of his early beginnings & understandably would like to know.
Is there any way of sourcing information regarding his Mother Catherine King?
In 1911 I found a John King age 4 & Kathleen King age 5 Boarders in a house b.dublin city Living in House 4 Irishtown Lower Straffan Kildare obviously fostered out. thank you
You have John King born 24th Nov 1906 to Parents Kate Kelly & John Patrick King.... you have info received from his 2 elderly daughters who knew nothing of his early beginnings & understandably would like to know.
If they get their Birth Certs it will tell them their Father and Mother's names, and addresses.
Just look for that Marriage which will then tell you their Father's names and address.
Then look for them on Census....
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Tks Agadowey. I was given a slip of paper today with the info I had posted which proves to be incorrect from the aspect of father being John King & mother Kate King (nee Kelly) no wonder I couldnt find a marriage.
John King b.1906 ended up in an industrial school in Greenmount Cork. The info I received from his 2 elderly daughters who knew nothing of his early beginnings & understandably would like to know.
Is there any way of sourcing information regarding his Mother Catherine King?
In 1911 I found a John King age 4 & Kathleen King age 5 Boarders in a house b.dublin city Living in House 4 Irishtown Lower Straffan Kildare obviously fostered out. thank you
You have John King born 24th Nov 1906 to Parents Kate Kelly & John Patrick King.... you have info received from his 2 elderly daughters who knew nothing of his early beginnings & understandably would like to know.
If they get their Birth Certs it will tell them their Father and Mother's names, and addresses.
Just look for that Marriage which will then tell you their Father's names and address.
Then look for them on Census....
u tks hallmark turns out people had wrong little info as birth for john king was found 1906 no father listed mother catherine king only. John king married early 1930's to a bridget o brien searched irishgenealogy cant see any i.wonder if its possible to track down catherine king the birth was in loughlinstown district dublin
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u tks hallmark turns out people had wrong little info as birth for john king was found 1906 no father listed mother catherine king only. John king married early 1930's to a bridget o brien searched irishgenealogy cant see any i.wonder if its possible to track down catherine king the birth was in loughlinstown district dublin
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Probably didn't register it so.
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I have John King born 24th Nov 1906 to Parents Kate Kelly & John Patrick King.
No father listed on birth certificate (illegitimate), mother is Catherine King-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01721/1681078.pdf
Mother Kate King died July 1907 Reg District Rathdrum.
That Kate King is wife of labourer so not mother of above John King-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05523/4548276.pdf
hallmark have amended original post aghadowey found civil birth
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A grand uncle of mine was in Artane Industrial School at time of 1901 census he was held there till he was 16 and then sent on licence to work for a farmer in Dublin till he was 18 got this from the Archivist at Christian Brother's.
Greenmount appears to be the Presentation Brother's so not sure who you would write to for record's but writing to Bernardo's might help you there to find if there are record's available circa 1922 age 16 to 1924 age 18.
You should also get the two ladies birth certs to help with your search.
I got the above info within a matter of a few week's after writing to the Brother's.
Dathai
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There are also workhouse record's for Rathdown which might yield an address for Catherine King .
https://timeline.ie/dublin-workhouse-records/
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Tks dathai you are as always very helpful appreciate
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better detail on this page
https://timeline.ie/dublin-workhouse-records/
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There are also workhouse record's for Rathdown which might yield an address for Catherine King .
https://timeline.ie/dublin-workhouse-records/
Had a look at this link Dathai & records are on FindMyPast dont have a sub.
Had a look on 1901 census for Catherine King Did find same in House 7 Harcourt Terrace
(Fitzwilliam) Dublin as a domestic age 22 B. County Dublin.Cannot locate in 1911
Looked for a Birth found a Catherine King 24 Feb 1880 Father David King Stonecutter Mother Catherine Clinton 32 Upper Mercer St South Dublin Union No 3 South City.
Also looked for a marriage for Catherine King no luck.
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Did the daughters ever ask for information in Church Register where parents married?
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The problem with Catherine King 1906 is that you dont know what age she was there are several in the Dublin area she could could be anyone of them.
If you search for them using Kat* King or Cat* King you will see what i mean.
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The informant on John's birth 1906 was John Killeen a teacher and workhouse master
this appears to be the actual address for the Rathdown Workhouse
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Killiney/Shanganagh__Part_of/98274/
building return
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000240704/
searched the surrounding area no King's
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Killiney/
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The informant on John's birth 1906 was John Killeen a teacher and workhouse master
this appears to be the actual address for the Rathdown Workhouse
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Killiney/Shanganagh__Part_of/98274/
building return
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000240704/
searched the surrounding area no King's
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Killiney/
tks dathai have spoken to lady who requested my search she will be meeting the 2 elderly daughters at xmas so hopfully get further exact information. I am going to leave the search until then
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Did the daughters ever ask for information in Church Register where parents married?
eldest daughter born c 1932 so parents would have married somtime i guess late 1920' s early 1930' s mother was bridget o brien from co limerick i searched but couldnt find any record john king was a tailor. Thank you
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Did the daughters ever ask for information in Church Register where parents married?
eldest daughter born c 1932 so parents would have married somtime i guess late 1920' s early 1930' s mother was bridget o brien from co limerick i searched but couldnt find any record john king was a tailor. Thank you
Did the daughters ever ask for information in Church Register where parents married?
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The informant on John's birth 1906 was John Killeen a teacher and workhouse master
this appears to be the actual address for the Rathdown Workhouse
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Killiney/Shanganagh__Part_of/98274/
building return
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000240704/
searched the surrounding area no King's
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Killiney/
tks dathai have spoken to lady who requested my search she will be meeting the 2 elderly daughters at xmas so hopfully get further exact information. I am going to leave the search until then
I am completely "in the dark" hallmark until the lady gets back to me which will probably be after xmas as she is facing a surgery tomorrow tks for your help
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I have found a very interesting marriage cert in Croom 1931
Sep 1st 1931 R C Church,Ballingarry
Patrick John King a Draper,St Peter's Road,Cork ? and then in place of fathers name the word Ignotus/Iqnotus ? cant find an explanation for this word but certainly does not appear to be father's name.
To Bridget O'Brien dtr of John a farmer,Ballinahaha,Ballingarry
one of the witness's was a Lilly O'Brien
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1931/09028/5266992.pdf
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Bridget ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Ballingarry/Ballynahaha/616409/
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Patrick John King a Draper,St Peter's Road,Cork ? and then in place of fathers name the word Ignotus/Iqnotus ? cant find an explanation for this word but certainly does not appear to be father's name.
Ignotus = unknown (Latin)
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Bridget's parents if right family John O'Brien and Catherine Cronin 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10593/5859346.pdf
Bridget's birth 1904
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01833/1715977.pdf
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Nice one Aghadowey
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Patrick John King's address may be the parish of St Peter & Paul and not St Peter's Road
http://corkandross.org/parishes/ss-peter-pauls/
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I have found a very interesting marriage cert in Croom 1931
Sep 1st 1931 R C Church,Ballingarry
Patrick John King a Draper,St Peter's Road,Cork ? and then in place of fathers name the word Ignotus/Iqnotus ? cant find an explanation for this word but certainly does not appear to be father's name.
To Bridget O'Brien dtr of John a farmer,Ballinahaha,Ballingarry
one of the witness's was a Lilly O'Brien
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1931/09028/5266992.pdf
great find Dathai just confirms details on Johns birth record no father recorded thank you again also for the info on Bridget.
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Patrick John King a Draper,St Peter's Road,Cork ? and then in place of fathers name the word Ignotus/Iqnotus ? cant find an explanation for this word but certainly does not appear to be father's name.
Ignotus = unknown (Latin)
thank you aghadowey
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I have found a very interesting marriage cert in Croom 1931
Sep 1st 1931 R C Church,Ballingarry
Patrick John King a Draper,St Peter's Road,Cork ? and then in place of fathers name the word Ignotus/Iqnotus ? cant find an explanation for this word but certainly does not appear to be father's name.
To Bridget O'Brien dtr of John a farmer,Ballinahaha,Ballingarry
one of the witness's was a Lilly O'Brien
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1931/09028/5266992.pdf
great find Dathai just confirms details on Johns birth record no father recorded thank you again also for the info on Bridget.
Dathai I notice on marriage he is PATRICK JOHN KING whereas on birth he is JOHN
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Well i suppose there are a few way's of looking at it ie should you be looking for a birth for Patrick John King and that you possibly have the wrong birth.
You will probably find out from his children's birth certs what name he used more generally through life,i presume you or they may have a death cert to see how it is recorded there.
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Well i suppose there are a few way's of looking at it ie should you be looking for a birth for Patrick John King and that you possibly have the wrong birth.
You will probably find out from his children's birth certs what name he used more generally through life,i presume you or they may have a death cert to see how it is recorded there.
The only correct information the 2 ladies gave was his date of birth so I think this is correct also the name they gave was John Patrick (they probably had it in reverse) as you say after xmas I will delve into it & try & get more info but I am led to believe their own information is pretty scarce - it was my cousin their friend for 60yrs who suggested I may be able to help. tks again
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As you probably know Owen and Eugene are interchangeable
this is likely Bridget O'Brien's mother's birth 1867
Catherine Cronin 1867 dtr Owen and Ellen Geary
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03480/2278951.pdf
28th April 1867 baptism Catherine dtr Eugenni and Helena Geary
Left hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635041#page/47/mode/1up
1901 mother and son Eugene
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Dromcolliher/Callahow/1509946/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Dromcolliher/Callahow/638649/
son Eugene's marriage 1897 to Katie Mullane
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10449/5804945.pdf
Ellen possibly died 1918 age 86 registered Newcastle district not viewable
Owen 1887 age 70
63
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06219/4779636.pdf
will index 1887 Owen Cronin
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014908/005014908_00097.pdf
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Tks dathai lots of great information :)
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The only correct information the 2 ladies gave was his date of birth so I think this is correct also the name they gave was John Patrick (they probably had it in reverse) as you say after xmas I will delve into it & try & get more info but I am led to believe their own information is pretty scarce - it was my cousin their friend for 60yrs who suggested I may be able to help. tks again
If you had said his name was John Patrick at the start of this thread the marriage dathai found would have been spotted much quicker :-\
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one to keep in mind from the Rathdown area
Katherine dtr of George King and Elizabeth Rochford
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kingstown/Patrick_Street/1319334/
married John O'Brien 1908
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10056/5657501.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Haliday_Square/43039/
you definitely need to get a look at the workhouse record's to see if there is anything recorded for her
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The only correct information the 2 ladies gave was his date of birth so I think this is correct also the name they gave was John Patrick (they probably had it in reverse) as you say after xmas I will delve into it & try & get more info but I am led to believe their own information is pretty scarce - it was my cousin their friend for 60yrs who suggested I may be able to help. tks again
If you had said his name was John Patrick at the start of this thread the marriage dathai found would have been spotted much quicker :-\
It is very difficult when one is handed a slip of paper with 3 names on it & a date of birth under the name of John King
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one to keep in mind from the Rathdown area
Katherine dtr of George King and Elizabeth Rochford
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kingstown/Patrick_Street/1319334/
married John O'Brien 1908
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10056/5657501.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Haliday_Square/43039/
you definitely need to get a look at the workhouse record's to see if there is anything recorded for her
Very interesting Dathai also is it coincidence the Katerine O Brien in 1911 has a son called John Patrick? Hopefully I can get to see the Rathdown workhouse records through some source. Thank you again.
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This article mentions Greenmount and an Archivist where the family have got records from the Presentation Brother's circa 1911 to 1917 his name was Thomas Tanner
They appear to have got his record's as recently as 2017
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-lost-boy-in-our-family-has-haunted-me-for-years-35585805.html
1911 for Thomas Tanner
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban__part_of_/Greenmount/398912/
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I wonder is the Author this lady perhaps you could contact her for address of Presentation Brother's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_O%27Callaghan#Early_life
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I wonder is the Author this lady perhaps you could contact her for address of Presentation Brother's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_O%27Callaghan#Early_life
Tks Dathai for links. I will hopefully get a more precise info when my cousin meets with the 2 daughters (cousin in hosp at moment) so when I get any further info I will let you know. tks again for all your help :)