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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: bullfrog1995 on Wednesday 05 December 18 05:08 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, it's been quite a while since I've made a post on rootschat, but lately I've been pulled back into my genealogy research and I remember what a great resource and how friendly everyone here is, so I have come back to ask for assistance.
I'm trying to find out more about Mary Clarke, aunt of Thomas Timlin. I haven't been able to get anywhere. She appears in the 1910 US Census in Philadelphia living with her nephew Thomas, his wife Mary, and their 9 children. Being an aunt, she has to be a sibling of either Thomas' mother or father - Bernard/Bryan Tim(b)lin or Selina/Cecelia Filbin. I'm curious to uncover the mystery of which.
Mary, according to the 1910 Census Mary Clarke was 65 years old, born approximately 1845 in Ireland. She is widowed and immigrated to the US in 1870. Bernard/Bryan and Selina/Cecelia lived in Leeds, England before immigrating to America and living in Philadelphia. According to the marriage records Bernard's father was William Timblin, a farmer. Selina's father was Patrick Filbin a laborer.
I'm hoping that finding some information about Mary could help lead me towards the early records and information regarding the families of Bernard and Selina before they were ever married. I'm going to take a guess that Mary is related to the Tim(b)lin family, and that she likely didn't have any children but I could be wrong. If anyone has access to any records or can point me in the right direction I appreciate the help.
I've been thinking about researching naturalization records for members in the Timlin family, does anyone know how I would go about the process of researching naturalization records of Philadelphia residents in the late 1800's?
Thanks again. Glad to be back :)
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Being an aunt, she has to be a sibling of either Thomas' mother or father
She could be an aunt of Thomas' wife Mary.
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There are links for Pennsylvania naturalization records here - https://www.germanroots.com/naturalization.html and https://www.germanroots.com/pennsylvania.html
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Thomas could have been naturalized on his father's naturalization, I think, but I'm not positive.
Mary Clarke may never have been naturalized, and if so, probably as a result of her husband becoming naturalized.
Is Mary either of these in 1900:
widowed w/ 2 children, unknown if naturalized
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3WP-WPT
servant, naturalization column is blank
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M37D-R45
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and for reference for others:
Thomas and family in 1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3WP-T46
Thomas, family and Mary Clarke in 1910:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MG3B-WK8
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There are links for Pennsylvania naturalization records here - https://www.germanroots.com/naturalization.html and https://www.germanroots.com/pennsylvania.html
and a couple at familysearch - I don't know what is in them.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1937344
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1913395
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Thomas could have been naturalized on his father's naturalization, I think, but I'm not positive.
modified to add: There were other conditions I think. If Thomas was still in his father's household and young enough (< 21?).
Basically - Look for his father's naturalization, esp. if you don't find one for Thomas himself.
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It sounds like Thomas' parents married in England, correct? Is so, that eliminates looking for the marriage in the Irish parish records.
Is there any evidence that they knew each other in Ireland or that their families were from the same general location? If so, Timlin and Filbin only occur together in Mayo, according to https://www.johngrenham.com/surnamescode/twosurnames.php?surname2=filbin&surname=timlin.
If no evidence to that effect, then no help there.
Are there any siblings for Bernard Timlin or Selina Filbin in Leeds? If so, what do you know about them? Did any of them emigrate to the US, or did their children, etc.?
If you get a few siblings you might take a chance on looking in the Irish parish baptism records for all the names in one place with the same parents. But that isn't really a definite way to find them. Much better to find a location on a non-Irish record before playing hide and seek in the baptism records.
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Timlin and Filbin only occur together in Mayo, according to https://www.johngrenham.com/surnamescode/twosurnames.php?surname2=filbin&surname=timlin.
... at the time of Griffith's valuation, which was done in Mayo in 1856-7.
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It sounds like Thomas' parents married in England, correct? Is so, that eliminates looking for the marriage in the Irish parish records.
Is there any evidence that they knew each other in Ireland or that their families were from the same general location? If so, Timlin and Filbin only occur together in Mayo, according to https://www.johngrenham.com/surnamescode/twosurnames.php?surname2=filbin&surname=timlin.
If no evidence to that effect, then no help there.
Are there any siblings for Bernard Timlin or Selina Filbin in Leeds? If so, what do you know about them? Did any of them emigrate to the US, or did their children, etc.?
If you get a few siblings you might take a chance on looking in the Irish parish baptism records for all the names in one place with the same parents. But that isn't really a definite way to find them. Much better to find a location on a non-Irish record before playing hide and seek in the baptism records.
Thank you everyone for your help and assistance!
I actually have Bernard and Selina's marriage record from Leeds in 1854. That is how I know the names of Bernard and Selina's fathers. Basically at this point the marriage record in Leeds between the two of them is the farthest back that I am able to go in the Timlin/Filbin family. I do have the 1861 England and Wales Census of the family they are still living in Leeds, but that is why I thought that US naturalization records would be a good place to go, because the 1900 US Census in Philadelphia says that "Bryand" was a naturalized citizen. I'm not exactly sure what information a naturalization document would provide, but I'm sure it would give me more specific information about Bernard Timblin including possibly the town of his birth and more information about his parents. Although I'm doing a little reading online and I'm not sure what type of genealogy relevant information I'll be able to find, but it's worth a shot.
aghadowey is right, the census documents aren't precise enough to distinguish whether it's the biological aunt of the head of household. It could technically be an aunt in-law, the sister of either Mary's father or mother.
Thanks again to everyone for the help.
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Is there any evidence that they knew each other in Ireland or that their families were from the same general location? If so, Timlin and Filbin only occur together in Mayo, according to https://www.johngrenham.com/surnamescode/twosurnames.php?surname2=filbin&surname=timlin.
Perhaps doesn't take into account of spelling variations (Philbin, etc.)?
Any of the U.S. naturalization records I've seen for that period just list country of birth- Ireland, Germany, etc.- so that might not be much use.
Wonder if 'aunt' died in Phildelphia did her death registration list any parents?
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Right, I didn't try variations, and a lot happened between 1845 and 1855 to move people around, so Grenham's site is more useful for later people.
In general a person's Petition for naturalization has more information than a Declaration of Intention, and the farther back you go the less specific the location and the less information being required. But I have seen a mid-1800's naturalization record that mentioned the county. I don't remember if it was the man's petition or declaration.
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Wonder if 'aunt' died in Phildelphia did her death registration list any parents?
Exactly, Mary only seems to appear in this 1910 census. A death record would likely unravel that information about parents as you suggest, maybe even city directories. And yes, all the spelling variations are an extra twist, I believe that my ancestors name was Bernard, but since it's such a unique name the records call him Bryan and Bryand in an effort to simplify.
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Bryan and Bernard are used interchangeably in Ireland.
Another idea- do you know where your family were buried? if so. check to see if any Mary Ann Clark the same age also buried there (people in Philadelphia often use the same cemetery as their relatives).
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These were where Bryan, Cecilia and Thonas were buried if you wish to contact those cemeteries. ???
FIND A GRAVE
Bryan Timblin 1830 - 1902
Old Cathedral Cemetery Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178147690
Cecilia Philbin Timblin - 30 April 1887
Holy Cross Cemetery Yeadon, Delaware County, Pennsylvania
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178147770/cecilia-timblin
Thomas Francis Timlin - 11 December 1860 - 19 July 1945
Holy Cross Cemetery Yeadon, Delaware County, Pennsylvania
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178147921/thomas-francis-timlin
Sandra
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Great ideas, thank you everyone for the leads.
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You may already have noticed these census entries
Your family in
1861 3373/45/14
Bryan and Cicely with children plus two Conway visitors
John Conway 18 yrs and Honora Conway 16 yrs
Then there is
1851 2320/480/3
Leeds
Michael Timlin 30 yrs
John Timlin 25 yrs
William Timlin 80 yrs
Sarah Timlin 63 yrs
Timothy Conway 36 yrs
Margaret Conway 28 yrs
John Conway 8 yrs
Michael Conway 7 yrs
Honor Conway 5 yrs
James Conway 1 yr
The Conway children have mmn Timlin (variation if spellings) and the Conway/Temlin marriage was 1842
Unfortunately, I can’t see Bernard/Bryan in 1851
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You might have this from a few years back but just in case..............
Thomas F Timblin Rites........Philadelphia Inquirer 21 July 1945
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/26028153/thomas_f_timblin_rites/
Sandra
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You may already have noticed these census entries
Your family in
1861 3373/45/14
Bryan and Cicely with children plus two Conway visitors
John Conway 18 yrs and Honora Conway 16 yrs
Then there is
1851 2320/480/3
Leeds
Michael Timlin 30 yrs
John Timlin 25 yrs
William Timlin 80 yrs
Sarah Timlin 63 yrs
Timothy Conway 36 yrs
Margaret Conway 28 yrs
John Conway 8 yrs
Michael Conway 7 yrs
Honor Conway 5 yrs
James Conway 1 yr
The Conway children have mmn Timlin (variation if spellings) and the Conway/Temlin marriage was 1842
Unfortunately, I can’t see Bernard/Bryan in 1851
This is really amazing heywood. Thank you for finding this and posting it here. This helps expand the Timlin family further in Europe for me. I'm happy to find that my Timlin family appears to be in Leeds at the time of the Irish famine, having left Ireland early I suppose.
I had actually never discovered that 1851 Leeds Census. It's a lot to think about and particularly interesting as you point out because the records have Margaret Timlen and John Conway marrying in 1842 in Leeds. I'll likely order that marriage record as I did Benrard/Bryan and Selina's. I'll have to see if Margaret's father is also listed as William Timlin on her marriage record too. I am certainly beginning to believe that John & Honor(a) Conway have more than a visitor relationship to Bryan/Bernard, because by comparing 1851 and 1861 census I would imagine that Bryan/Bernard is an uncle of John & Honor(a) Conway or some other type of relative.
William Timlin is listed as 80 years old in the 1851 census. If William is the father of Bernard/Bryan cited in his marriage certificate and possibly of Margaret. If so that means that William had them quite late in life, in his late fifties. I'm not ruling out the possibility, but maybe he is another patriarch of the family. This Timlin family seems big, but their living in Leeds gives me a better chance at finding out more information about them.
Thank you all again for everything and all of the information you've provided me. I appreciate the miracles that happen on rootschat.