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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: jess5athome on Friday 07 December 18 12:37 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I have been trying to find out about my Grandfathers Military service in the second world war.
Gerhadus Hendrikus Kempen was born in the Netherlands but came to England with his parents in 1912 at the age of 8 years, he answered the Netherlands call to arms during the war and joined the Royal Netherlands Navy.
It seems from the information I have that he served on the MV Gadila, this was a converted oil tanker and was turned into a merchant aircraft carrier (MAC Ship) and he was based at the Royal Naval Air Station Maydown, Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
The proof is there that he served and I am wondering if he would have been awarded a medal such as the Defence and War Medal, no one in the family believes he was awarded one
My question is, would he have been awarded them, or would he possibly have been awarded a Netherlands medal if indeed one existed, I would like to purchase copies if he was eligible.
Many thanks in anticipation of your kind replies and as always my very best regards.
Frank.
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Can't find a source to cite but my feeling is UK service medals are for members of the UK services.
Perhaps our readers in the Netherlands would know about Dutch war service medals, likely he would have had one/more of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_the_Netherlands
MaxD
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Hi MaxD :) many thanks, I shall do more searching online and possibly post on the "Other Countries" board, like you I found very little, many thanks again.
Frank.
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Poster HMac should give you a definitive answer.
If not the man to talk to is Henk Meurs
http://members.ziggo.nl/hmeurs/
His website is in Dutch, there is an email address on the site. Henks English is A1.
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Hi seaweed :) many, many thanks for that, I shall have a look at the link when at home this afternoon.
Frank.
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My dad served in the Prinses Irene Brigade in WWII and his medals are Dutch, so I think it would be the same for seamen. However, my uncle flew with the British, so you've got me wondering about him. cb
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If the uncle who flew was a member of the UK forces then my feeling is that he would, regardless of nationality, qualify for British service medals.
MaxD
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MV GADILA was built in 1934 and registered in The Hague, later in 1941/42 her registry was transferred to Willemstad. She operated under the Netherlands Mercantile Marine flag.
As far as I am aware, as your Grandad would be considered a Netherlands sailor, he would not have been entitled to British medals unless he became a British Subject. I believe he would been entitled to Dutch medals. Henk should clarify the situation.
From past experience I know British Seamen who served on Dutch or Norwegian vessels did have a British medal entitlement. In certain circumstance's they also received medals from the Dutch and/or Norwegian governments.
Your Grandad did his bit. GADILA sailed in several HX convoys (Atlantic)
http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/
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I will defer to Henk on this too on the basis that I cannot give you a primary source.
My own feeling is that if he was in the Dutch RN, he would not be entitled to British campaign medals as his awards would be military decorations awarded by his own nation.
If, however, he was serving in the British Merchant Navy then he would be entitled.
Regards
Hugh
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Hi, many thanks for your continued input :)
clayton bradley, could I ask what medals your Dad received, did he have to apply for them, or were they automatically sent to him?
Seaweed, thank you for the information regarding the GADILA, I know my mother used to mention receiving letters from him as a child, sent from Canada.
Hugh, many thanks for your reply, I have Emailed the site provided by seaweed and will hopefully receive a reply in due course.
Once again my sincere thanks to you all for your input into my post.
Best regards always
Frank.
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You may need official details of the wartime movements of GADILA. Her movement card can be downloaded from the National Archives website. Cost £3.50.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8658336
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Hi seaweed, many thanks for that, I will download it now :)
Frank.
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https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/82528443/person/150104614101/media/aa671b9b-3b10-4a1a-bfa1-1a11cbf13516?_phsrc=Vvz25238&usePUBJs=true
This is on my tree. My brother has the medals but I do have a photo. Will have another look for it. Dad just got them automatically, I think and a Dutch Bible.
Thanks to MaxD. I will ask my uncle's widow what Uncle Wouter got, cb
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Hi clayton bradley, thank you for the reply, it's very much appreciated :)
Frank.
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I hope you found the medal. This is the exact link
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/82528443/person/150104614101/media/378f5a4d-3cfb-4c69-b1a0-a2355009eac6?_phsrc=Vvz25238&usePUBJs=true
Apparently Uncle Wouter didn't get anything. Pity.
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I hope you found the medal. This is the exact link
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/82528443/person/150104614101/media/378f5a4d-3cfb-4c69-b1a0-a2355009eac6?_phsrc=Vvz25238&usePUBJs=true
Apparently Uncle Wouter didn't get anything. Pity.
Hi again, thank you so much for that :)
Frank.
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You may need official details of the wartime movements of GADILA. Her movement card can be downloaded from the National Archives website. Cost £3.50.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8658336
What an interesting thread.
I wondered why details of MV Gadila would be stored at the (British) National Archive, so I asked Mr Google's opinion.
Wikipedia says: "MV Gadila was built at the Howaldtswerke, Kiel, Germany and completed 11 April 1935 as an oil tanker for the Royal Dutch/Shell line. She was converted at Smith's Dock, North Shields between April 1943 and 1 February 1944. She entered service as a MAC ship in March 1944, and operated under the Netherlands Mercantile Marine flag.[1]
As a MAC ship, she had no aircraft hangar, and continued to carry normal cargoes with a mercantile ship's crew, although operating under British Royal Navy control. Only her air crew and the necessary maintenance staff were Naval personnel.[2] In the case of the Gadila, these were provided by the Royal Netherlands Navy and served as elements of Fleet Air Arm 860 (Dutch) Naval Air Squadron."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Gadila
That explains the National Archive interest..... but I don't know if it helps you untangle the question at all? :-\
Personally, I would be inclined to approach both British and Dutch Naval sources with your query.
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Hello mowsehowse, :) many thanks for the reply, Yes I will probably have to follow the Netherlands Naval path shortly, in the meantime I am awaiting a possible reply from Henk Meurs on the link kindly provided by seaweed, hopefully he may be able to shed some light on my question.
Many thanks again for your input and my best regards always.
Frank :)