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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: dancingscottie on Monday 17 December 18 19:26 GMT (UK)

Title: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Monday 17 December 18 19:26 GMT (UK)
I'm trying to trace details of my maternal grandfather.   

He was born (according to DNA) to a Robert Miller and Euphemia Crerar.  It seems Euphemia was married to someone else at the time, and so my grandfather was "given" to another family, the McNicol's. 

John McNicol married my grandmother Margaret Gilkison in 1948 at Bridgeton Methodist Church.  They had two children.  He was in the Navy, they lived in Wales for sometime before returning to Pollock area.  He then disappeared.  He went to sea and never returned (he did not die, he just fled his family).

It is believed he may have also reverted to John Miller at this time.

Can anyone help me figure out how to find where he may have gone, and what his life looked like?  I'm working on the assumption that he is now deceased, of course.   

This topic is very painful for my mother, and my grandmother certainly never spoke his name to us.  He left her alone with two small children, understandable that they closed the door on that chapter. 

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Wendy2305 on Monday 17 December 18 20:16 GMT (UK)
Hi  Euphemia who died in 1951 at Aberfeldy had other name Rees which would match with a marriage between Euphemia Crerar and Alexander John Rees in 1921 at Aberfeldy There is a birth in 1929 in Aberfeldy of a John McNicol Crerar  this would possibly be your grandfather
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Wendy2305 on Monday 17 December 18 20:20 GMT (UK)
Also the marriage between your grandparents has been indexed 4 times under the surnames of Duff, McNicol, Miller and Crerar which shows he used those surnames through his life at one point
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 17 December 18 20:21 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat

Rootschat has a no living persons policy so we have to be careful what information is given as he may still be alive.  Have you obtained a copy of the 1948 marriage cert to establish who he named as his parents?

Also - the 1929 birth cert may yield some information
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Monday 17 December 18 20:30 GMT (UK)
Yes, absolutely understand the "no living person" policy.  Makes sense, unfortunately, I have not been able to CONFIRM for certain that he has died, I am only going by the fact that every other person of that generation in my family has passed - the youngest who would have been his sister in law - died in 2015. 

Attached is the marriage certificate I obtained.
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Monday 17 December 18 20:32 GMT (UK)
Hi  Euphemia who died in 1951 at Aberfeldy had other name Rees which would match with a marriage between Euphemia Crerar and Alexander John Rees in 1921 at Aberfeldy There is a birth in 1929 in Aberfeldy of a John McNicol Crerar  this would possibly be your grandfather

Thank you.  I didn't think to look for him using Crerar. 
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Monday 17 December 18 20:46 GMT (UK)
Hi  Euphemia who died in 1951 at Aberfeldy had other name Rees which would match with a marriage between Euphemia Crerar and Alexander John Rees in 1921 at Aberfeldy There is a birth in 1929 in Aberfeldy of a John McNicol Crerar  this would possibly be your grandfather

That does sound right, yes.  I don't have that birth record, however.    The name Alexander J Rees has shown up in my research, also, although I didn't have the dots connected correctly that he would be my great, great grandfather!  Thank you.
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Wendy2305 on Monday 17 December 18 20:56 GMT (UK)
The marriage between Euphemia and James Duff was in 1924 in Bonhill Her name is indexed as Euphemie this Euphemia died 1977 in Vale of Leven mothers ms Cowan age 73 There is a marriage between a Donald Crerar and Jemmia Cowan in 1896 in Bonhill and a birth of a Euphemia Crerar in Bonhill 1903 so not sure about the 1929 birth in Aberfeldy
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Wendy2305 on Monday 17 December 18 21:20 GMT (UK)
There is also a birth of a John McNicol Miller b1929 in Bonhill which could also possibly be your grandfather which would fit better with the Euphemia who married James Duff
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 17 December 18 22:54 GMT (UK)
Quote
He was in the Navy, they lived in Wales for sometime before returning to Pollock area.  He then disappeared.  He went to sea and never returned (he did not die, he just fled his family).

Roughly what year did he disappear?

Was he in the Royal or the Merchant navy?

Having his actual birthdate could be useful when looking for a death for him
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Monday 17 December 18 23:38 GMT (UK)
Quote
He was in the Navy, they lived in Wales for sometime before returning to Pollock area.  He then disappeared.  He went to sea and never returned (he did not die, he just fled his family).

Roughly what year did he disappear?

Was he in the Royal or the Merchant navy?

Having his actual birthdate could be useful when looking for a death for him

Disappearance in the early 1960s from what I can gather.  Royal Navy (with no particular status or rank), and 1929 seems to be the birth estimate, but I can't find definitive documentation yet.
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Wendy2305 on Monday 17 December 18 23:48 GMT (UK)
Dancingscottie you can view 1929 births at General register House in Edinburgh and a few other locations otherwise you would need to order it from Scotlands People
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 December 18 00:07 GMT (UK)
The marriage between Euphemia and James Duff was in 1924 in Bonhill Her name is indexed as Euphemie this Euphemia died 1977 in Vale of Leven mothers ms Cowan age 73 There is a marriage between a Donald Crerar and Jemmia Cowan in 1896 in Bonhill and a birth of a Euphemia Crerar in Bonhill 1903 so not sure about the 1929 birth in Aberfeldy

Has her middle name:

DUFF James CRERAR Euphemie Watson 1924 493/ 91 Bonhill

Jamjar
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 18 December 18 00:12 GMT (UK)
If he was in the RN and at sea, I think money (an allotment) from his wages would have been going directly to your grandmother for support.    I am not sure but I think this was a statutory requirement although I am happy to be corrected if this was not the case.

If this stopped - it would be because he left the RN and presumably your grandmother would have contacted them when the money ceased and been told that.

There is an outside possibility the RN have further info but they would not give it to your mother without proof of her fathers death - which is a mystery at the moment.

Do you know if your grandmother ever applied for a divorce?   

Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 December 18 00:23 GMT (UK)
Birth:

DUFF JOHN MCNICOL M 1929 493/ 113 Bonhill

There are only 4 DUFF children (boys) born in Bonhill between 1924 and 1942.

Jamjar
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 December 18 00:26 GMT (UK)
Have you connected the Crerar and the McNicol families. Could he have been given to a family member?

Added: How do you know he was ‘given’ to a McNicol family?

Jamjar
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 December 18 00:52 GMT (UK)
The 1911 census CREARAR 493/ 12/ 13 Bonhill Dunbarton

Donald 38
Jemima 38
Lizzie 12 - CRERAR ELIZABETH HERDM 1899 493/ 46 Bonhill
Donald 10 - CRERAR DONALD STEWART 1900 493/ 428 Bonhill
Euphemia 7 - CRERAR EUPHEMIA 1903 493/ 334 Bonhill
Catherine 2 - CRERAR CATHERINE STEWA 1908 493/ 391 Bonhill

CRERAR JEMIMA COWAN F 1911 493/ 365 Bonhill

Marriage:

CRERAR Donald COWAN Jemima 1896 493/ 91 Bonhill

1901 census CRERAR 493/ 13/ 27 Bonhill Dunbarton

Donald 28
Jemima 28
John 4 - CRERAR JOHN HERDMAN 1896 493/ 338 Bonhill
Elizabeth H 2 - CRERAR ELIZABETH HERDM 1899 493/ 46 Bonhill
Donald 0 - CRERAR DONALD STEWART 1900 493/ 428 Bonhill

Jamjar
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 December 18 01:25 GMT (UK)
I agree with Wendy on the death of Euphemia:

CRERAR Euphemia 74 mmn COWAN 1977 503/ 277 Vale Of Leven

DUFF Euphemia 74 mmn COWAN 1977 503/ 277 Vale Of Leven

Jamjar
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: Wendy2305 on Tuesday 18 December 18 05:08 GMT (UK)
Just to add the John McNicol Miller registration in Bonhilll is the same one as the John McNicol Duff in Bomhill also indexed under Crerar and Miller
As he is registered under Miller his father went and registered him with your gt grandmother and his name will be on the certificate
It also appears to have been registered in Springburn as well I would guess this is because your Grt grandmother was married to James Duff and John wasn't his child she had him away from the family home and he was born and registered in Springburn but also it was forwarded on to  Bonhill as that was her usual residence
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Tuesday 18 December 18 14:48 GMT (UK)
Just to add the John McNicol Miller registration in Bonhilll is the same one as the John McNicol Duff in Bomhill also indexed under Crerar and Miller
As he is registered under Miller his father went and registered him with your gt grandmother and his name will be on the certificate
It also appears to have been registered in Springburn as well I would guess this is because your Grt grandmother was married to James Duff and John wasn't his child she had him away from the family home and he was born and registered in Springburn but also it was forwarded on to  Bonhill as that was her usual residence

Really helpful, thank you EVERYONE!!!  I was so confused about all these different names and locations... it seems like the mud is clearing.
Title: Re: John McNicol / Miller (born in mid/late 1920s) Glasgow
Post by: dancingscottie on Tuesday 18 December 18 14:50 GMT (UK)
Have you connected the Crerar and the McNicol families. Could he have been given to a family member?

Added: How do you know he was ‘given’ to a McNicol family?

Jamjar

My Mum was able to tell me that about him.  She vaguely remembers her Grandma McNicol, and knew that there was an affair with a bus driver.... I don't know how the McNicols came to be involved, but I was told that they "helped a woman out of a situation."