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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: paulrussell on Tuesday 18 December 18 10:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am researching my maternal great grandfather, William Henry SMITH, born in Corfu 1848/49. His father was Thomas SMITH a bandmaster. I assume Thomas SMITH was garrisoned in Corfu as part of the British Protectorate but I don't know which battalion/regiment he was attached to or the dates he served there.
Not only am I interested in the details of Thomas' service in Corfu, but I also want to find William's birth record/certificate and hence the name of his mother. Any pointers to where I may begin my search would be much appreciated. Many thanks
Paul Russell
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Welcome to Rootschat, Paul.
I recommend Findmypast for excellent military records. It has regimental birth indices (records can be ordered using this index information from GRO Online, using their Overseas Events form).
It also has 19th century Army records, and Army lists. I see that a Thomas Smith is listed in the 1851 British Army, Worldwide Index as a private in the 49th (Princess Charlotte of Wales’, or the Hertfordshire) Regiment of Foot, stationed at Fermoy & Corfu.
It looks from his census entries as though William Henry was an Army musician too? You may find service records, pension records for him also. I see he was absent from the family in 1901 - did he serve in South Africa?
NB On a quick look I saw regimental birth index entries for a William Smith, but not with a middle name, in Corfu - it may be that he didn’t always have a middle name.
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Actually now I come to look at it, the Army lists show several men named Thomas Smith whose regiments were stationed in Corfu, so I wouldn’t necessarily pay special attention to the one I mentioned earlier.
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A Mr T Smith is mentioned in an 1856 newspaper report as bandmaster for the Royal Marines Light Infantry band at Woolwich.
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Many thanks for the prompt reply.
I shall certainly be using Findmypast for military records. I had also discovered a regimental birth index for a William Smith but as you say without a middle name. I also wondered why he was missing from the 1901 census, but as you say he might have been out in South Africa - on the 1911 census he is listed as Musician (Army Pensioner) so that ties in.
'Received family wisdom' suggests that William's mother was Spanish, so perhaps his father Thomas might have served during the Peninsular War.
Why did they have to be called SMITH?!
Many thanks. Paul
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Another newspaper mention: " 1st West York Rifle Volunteers (bandmaster Mr. Thomas Smith)" in the Yorkshire Gazette of 5 May 1860. Possibly a post-discharge appointment to the militia.
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I assume you have Thomas' occupation from William's marriage certificate?
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ShaunJ - many thanks, that looks v promising
Josey - correct :)
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This looks like the baptism of William's daughter "Hester" in Preston in 1888:
(per LAN-OPC)
Baptism: 19 Feb 1888 St Thomas, Preston, Lancashire, England
Esther Mabel Smith - [Child] of William Henry Smith & Sarah Ann
Abode: 37 Frank St.
Occupation: Army Pensioner
So William was already a pensioner in 1888. It should be possible to find his discharge papers which might give more information about his birthplace and next of kin. I note from the 1891 census that his birthplace is recorded as Deal in Kent.
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Baptism for the son Samuel G (7 b Devonport per 1891):
St Paul, Devonport, 26 October 1883
Samuel George Smith, born 2 October, son of William (Musician R.N.) and Sarah, of 49 Princess St.
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Thanks AVM228. Does that infer DOB as 2/10/1883 and baptism as 23/10/1883? I do have a note of a George Smith but no specifics, so maybe he was Samuel George Smith.
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Born 2 October 1883* and baptised 26 October 1883.
*Nine months and a day after their 1 January 1883 wedding :)
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Cool ;)
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Thanks ShaunJ. This is the first I've seen of an Esther Mabel Smith but quite possible. Am I correct in thinking that military births oversees were registered in the UK at the port of disembarkation, hence the Deal attribution or is that a myth?
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Regimental births were registered where they happened (overseas if applicable). Also the census question is about birth, not registration. Either way the Deal finding is in conflict with the Corfu ones. Perhaps the family spent time in both places & there was some confusion?
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ShaunJ - I have a family record of a Mabel Smith but no DOB etc, so clearly Hester Mabel is correct. Thanks for that.
avm228 - yes, that makes sense. Cheers
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Children of William Henry & Sarah Ann (as registered):
Samuel George Smith, mmn Western, Dec qtr 1883 Stoke Damerel
William Herman Smith, mmn Western, Dec qtr 1885 Stoke Damerel (died aged 1, Jun qtr 1887 Preston)
Esther Mabel Smith, mmn Western, Mar qtr 1888 Preston (died aged 5, Sep qtr 1893 Stow)
Sydney Charles Smith, mmn Western, Sep qtr 1891 Lancaster
Helena Smith, mmn Western, Mar qtr 1894 Stow
Arthur Smith, mmn Western, Mar qtr 1898 Cockermouth
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Baptism for the second son:
St Aubyn’s, Devonport, 13 September 1885
William Herman Smith, born 29 August 1885.
Parents: William Henry (bandsman R.N.) and Sarah Anne, of 35 St Aubyn Street.
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Death of Esther Mabel Smith aged 5, Sep qtr 1893 Stow.
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Death of William Hermon Smith aged 1, Jun qtr 1887 Preston.
This places the family’s move from Devon (where he was born) to Lancs between Sep 1885 and mid-1887.
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I haven't got a record of a William Herman Smith but my mother remembered talk of an uncle Ernie. Could be one and the same. Helena (Lena) was born in Stowmarket and as you say Hester Mabel died there (Stow), so the family clearly lived in Suffolk for some years before heading back up to Lancashire where their mother Sarah Anne Western was brought up. Arthur was my maternal grandfather
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In the Ionian Islands Chaplains Births index is this rather odd one - Limerick/Simerick must be one of the smaller islands:
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In the Ionian Islands Chaplains Births index is this rather odd one - Limerick/Simerick must be one of the smaller islands:
Odd! Is these a possible alternative explanation - that the chaplain moved with the regiment between the Ionian Islands and a base in Limerick (Ireland)?
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V odd indeed. I suppose it could be just a simple data entry error. Is there a date attached to the record?
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It's in the Ionian Islands military births index as well....no dates
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Here's how it appears on the typed list. I am sure vol 2 p 32 would be worth a punt with the GRO, for £6. If you go through 'Overseas Event' & then you can specify father as Thomas so you won't have to pay if the father has another name. I understand, though, that not all military birth certificates have mother's maiden name.
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I think my Smith is probably the one underneath the Limerick entry - I have a transcript of the Ionian Islands Military births file you have found, from c5d.co.uk. Presumably I can get the birth cert from Kew
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Ha! The vagaries of posting while being posted to. You have just answered my question.
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Although I think my Smith is 5 - 74
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Presumably I can get the birth cert from Kew
Use https://www.gro.gov.uk. Register, then go to Order a Certificate/pdf, Birth Overseas Event & follow instructions.
ADDED: I have had a look and it seems you have to know the year even if you know the GRO reference...so in a quandary as to how it can be ordered.
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Thanks. I have his DOB/Reg as 1848 so I will go with that and see what happens
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I hope you get the option to give father's name.
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Yes I got the option for father's name thanks. Application dispatched
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Please post what information you get back.
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Will do. Many thanks for all your help
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Looking at the stations of the British Army, it seems that several regiments had their depot in Limerick when the main body was in Corfu (for instance 47th Foot was in Corfu in 1852, with its depot in Limerick). Might explain things.