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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: moiramount on Wednesday 19 December 18 16:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi looking for any anscestors of Jane Grigor and John Ross. Jane was born in Duffus Morayshire 1881 she married in 1903. When her dad died in 1925 she was living in Taymouth Crieff. Any info appreciated.
Moira
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Have you looked for her on the 1911 census to establish if she had any children at that time?
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I did have a look but wasn't sure which one was her as they married in Edinburgh so not sure where they were living.
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There is this birth
ROSS
GRIGOR
M
1911
128/2 8
Inverallan
Of course, both names are common enough it could be any old Grigor ROSS
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regarding Jane Grigors marriage, i noticed that my great grandmothers name was not on her certificate. it was another woman by the name of Grigor, M.S different too. i know its the right certificate as her sister was a witness and Janes husband was a witness on her sisters marriage in 1916. Its very confusing as Janes parents married in 1879 and Jane was the 1st born. The marriage was in St Giles in Edinburgh yet her parents lived in Duffus all their life.
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When did her mother die?
Do you mean the Christian name is incorrect as well as the maiden name.
Do you have Jane at home up until 1901?
I’m just trying to get an idea of the likelihood of her getting her mother’s details wrong.
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Her mum died in 1934 and her father in 1925. Jane Ross signed her father's death cert. I tried to put the cert in here but I can't, file too big it says. I put it on a site for Burghead where they come from and someone said it's Nettie ( Helen ) M.S Muir. I have searched everywhere for a match but nothing. Someone else said Jessie is short for Nettie ? I've checked in case it was her aunty or some other relative , but nothing.
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Just had a quick look but cannot see her on the 1901 census
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Her mum died in 1934 and her father in 1925. Jane Ross signed her father's death cert. I tried to put the cert in here but I can't, file too big it says. I put it on a site for Burghead where they come from and someone said it's Nettie ( Helen ) M.S Muir. I have searched everywhere for a match but nothing. Someone else said Jessie is short for Nettie ? I've checked in case it was her aunty or some other relative , but nothing.
Normally Nellie is another name for Helen and Jessie is another name for Janet Can I just check Jane's parents were Margaret Davidson and John Grigor and she had a sister Lilias who married Francis Johnston in 1904 as there are 4 people who died with the surname Ross mother's ms Grigor including Lilias Ann Gordon Ross and Margaret Davidson Ross
There is a marriage between a Margaret Davidson and John Grigor registered 1880 in Fraserburgh
In 1891 census in Duffus this John and Margaret are living with John age 70 and Isabella age 60 possibly John's parents with children
William 14
Jane 9
John 8
Mary Ann 6
Isa 4
James 1
Margaret 0
Is this the correct family
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Yes John and Margaret Davidson are correct. The first one you mentioned isn't our family.
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John's parents appear to be John Grigor and Isabella McKenzie can't see a marriage for them but John jr was born 1850 in Duffus and had a brother William born 1853 there's a death in 1906 Lathern for Isabella Grigor other name MacKenzie age 76 which would fit and a death for a John Grigor in 1900 Burghead age 81
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Yes they are all my family and I have all the certs for them, it's the Jane Grigor marriage that's confusing.
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so the confusing part is on her marriage Jane named her mother Nettie or Nellie Grigor ms Muir when her mother was Margaret ms Davidson who died in 1934
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Yes that's correct. I will have a search again tomorrow and see if I can bring anything else up. Also on the marriage cert it states that her father was a Salmon Fisherman, which he was, this convinced me more that it's the right one. Thanks for all your help, really appreciated.
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one last thing is her mother marked as deceased on the marriage even though she was still living
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No very much alive
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Well I have searched and searched, used Janet, Nettie, Helen and various other names. No Muir and Grigor match.
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Janes address at time of marriage was 8 Chester Street Edinburgh.
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Just to rule it out who was William's parents I noticed he was with John and Isabella in 1881 as their nephew
Also did either John or Margaret have a sister Helen Nellie or Ellen or are there any other grandchildren of either the Grigor's or Ross's who were the biological children of sons
I'm now wondering if a Helen/Nellie Muir had an illegitimate child to a Grigor or Ross as like you I can find no Grigor Muir marriage
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Also who were Margaret Davidson's parents and did she have any siblings called Helen Nellie or Ellen
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Just had a quick look but cannot see her on the 1901 census
Have you looked at this one ? Might be a possible and might explain how she was married in Edinburgh
Transcribed as Jeannie Gregor on Ancestry age 20 born about 1881 Duffus Elginshire
Occupation Tablemaid
Address 10,Atholl Crescent St George Edinburgh
At the home of Henry M Cadell and his wife and family
Rosie
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Margaret Davidson was born in New Deer Aberdeen, they married 1879 and Jane was born 1881. Jane was living at 8 Chester Street Edinburgh when they married according to the marriage cert. William was the son of John and Margaret Grigor. There were three John's, my grandad, my GT grandad and my GT GT grandad. John and Mary, John and Margaret and John and Isabella.
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I wish I could get the cert on, I will try tomorrow.
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Just helping Moira. Attached is a clip from Jane's 1903 marriage showing her parents' details:
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And from Jane's sister Isabella's marriage cert:
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Additonal clip from Jane Grigor's marriage reg with witness name of Ella Grigor (Ella - Isabella?)
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A public tree showing the marriage of John Ross and Jane Grigor in 1903 has the following children
John Grigor Ross b 1904, James Swanson Ross b1908,Margaret Davidson Ross 1914 and Jane Grigor Ross b 1919. Apart from John the other children were born in Perthshire (although I note on SP there are 2 births showing for a James Swanson Ross in 1908, one in Comrie and one in Burghead).
I would suggest that the family is likely to have been in Perthshire for the 1911 census and would suggest this as a possibility.
Ref 342/6/1 Crieff, Perthshire
John Ross 29
Jean Ross 29 (Jean and Jane often interchangeable).
John Ross 6
James S Ross 3
James Swanson Ross's birth cert would hopefully confirm date and place of parents marriage. Do you have Jane's death cert- what are her parents names there?
William
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Thanks for that info, no I don't have Jane's death cert but I noticed she named one of the children after her mum ? Margaret Davidson Ross. My mum was Mary Ann Davidson Grigor as it's traditional I believe to carry the grandmother's maiden name.
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Can't find Jane's death either.
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Can't find Jane's death either.
The only death I can see for a Jane Grigor other name Ross is in 1926 George Square Edinburgh
Age 45 years ...Had a few credits and it is her she died Royal Infirmary 30 thNovember 1926
Her usual residence was Crieff ...Father John Grigor deceased ...Salmon Fisher
Mother Margaret Grigor maiden name Davidson ...Death was registered by her husband John Ross
If you Pm me I will send you the copy ....Still does not help with the mothers name on marriage certificate ....which could possibly been a mistake ?
Rosie
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Thankyou so much Rosie.
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Thankyou so much Rosie. My email is moiramount@hotmail.com.
Just on my way out will send you the copy when I get in ..you might be better to delete your e-mail mail address I have noted it
Rosie :)
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Oh my, I have just realised, I have her mum's death cert in 1934 and Jane was present at her death. What on earth is going on with this woman. ?????
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Oh my, I have just realised, I have her mum's death cert in 1934 and Jane was present at her death. What on earth is going on with this woman. ?????
Sorry Moira are you saying that Jane Ross daughter was the informant on her mums 1934 death cert although Jane Ross died in 1926?
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Sorry my mistake, just looked at cert, it was 1925 on her father's death cert. It was Isabella 1934 on her mum's. Phew, thank goodness for that. Thankyou so much.
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someone said it's Nettie ( Helen ) M.S Muir. I have searched everywhere for a match but nothing. Someone else said Jessie is short for Nettie ?
Nellie is a diminutive of Helen or Eleanor. Nettie is a diminutive of Janet, which is used interchangeably with Jessie. I am not convinced the name on that certificate is either Nellie or Nettie.
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Hi forfarion, yes I have tried every name available, even just putting Grigor in. It's either her father had a fancy woman or it's a mistake. I think I will go with the mistake.
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Hi forfarion, yes I have tried every name available, even just putting Grigor in. It's either her father had a fancy woman or it's a mistake. I think I will go with the mistake.
Yes, I agree that it looks like a mistake.
If I were you I think I would contact the Registrar in Edinburgh - that is the office of the Registrar for the city, not the Registrar General at New Register House, who holds the books from which the information on Scotland's People is taken - attaching all the evidence you have from certificates including at least one of Jane's children's births showing that marriage date and place in 1903, and ask them if their duplicate copy of the register contains anything that might shed light on the matter.
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Good Idea
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Hi Moira have sent you a copy ...As Forfarian has suggested I would contact Register in Edinburgh
Do you have the birth certificate for Jane Grigor born 1881 showing her parents names ?
Rosie
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Not sure will have a look
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No I don't have it, will look on Scotland's people.
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Not sure will have a look
You should be able to download on Scotlands People
Jane Grigor female 1881 Duffus ref/number 13/41
That will give you her parents names and the date of their marriage
Rosie
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I have their marriage, birth and death certs it was just their children that I hadn't done. Thanks for all your help much appreciated.
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Just a quick one, how do you find where someone is buried, still trying to find where Jane's parents are buried. I've been on the Libindex, find a grave etc and no one appears to know.
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Hi Moria have you tried www.deceasedonline/com
Rosie
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Where did her parents die?
If they died in Moray but are not on LIBINDX (NB it is not libindex - the name was created in the days when computer file names could only have 8 letters!) that means that there was no legible gravestone when the Moray burial grounds were surveyed in 1978. And if there is no stone, there would only be anything on FindaGrave etc etc if someone had transcribed the burial records.
There might be a burial record, as opposed to a gravestone, but the Duffus burial records are not exemplary and don't go back very far. Moray Local Heritage Centre should have a copy of the Duffus burials.
Don't waste your time or money on Deceased Online because Moray's burial records are not available on Deceased Online.
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1925 and 1934
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1925 and 1934
Yes, I saw those dates above. I asked where they died.
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Sorry, Burghead
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Sorry, Burghead
So the likelihood is indeed that they're in Duffus cemetery.
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Probably, not sure if I could write to the vicar and get confirmation, also there is a cemetery in Burghead but I couldn't locate them on my last visit.
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Probably, not sure if I could write to the vicar and get confirmation, also there is a cemetery in Burghead but I couldn't locate them on my last visit.
There is no vicar - vicars don't exist in the Church of Scotland, and in any case the churches no longer hold the burial records.
The records of all cemeteries in Moray are in the hands of Moray Council, and microfilm copies are available in the Local Heritage Centre in Elgin.
And if there had been a stone in Burghead or anywhere else in Moray it would have been recorded in the 1978 survey, and the details would be on LIBINDX.
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Ok thankyou.