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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 11:19 GMT (UK)

Title: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 11:19 GMT (UK)
I recently ordered the birth certificate of my 2nd great-grandmother, Mary Ann Doran which confirms her birth date of 27th Aug 1878 (which I know to be true as it is also on the 1939 census). The birth certificate also names Mary Ann's father to be John Doran (also detailed as John on Mary Ann's marriage certificate in 1897).
I knew Mary Ann's mother was called Margaret as it is in the 1881 census.
In the birth certificate, the father's occupation is a labourer, however on Mary Ann's marriage certificate he is named as a shipwright.
Also In the birth certificate I ordered, the mother is named as Margaret Doran, previously Stewart. However, I am struggling to find any records relating a Margaret Stewart to a John Doran. I am however seeing records for a Margaret Kapene/Henry?
I was wondering about the accuracy of this birth certificate? 
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 21 December 18 11:28 GMT (UK)
Mother’s maiden name is Stewart:

DORAN, MARY  ANN mmn STEWART
GRO Reference: 1878  S Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 155

I assume this is the cert you have.

Jamjar
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 21 December 18 11:31 GMT (UK)
Is this the 1881 census you mean  :-\
Richmond Row, Liverpool
John I   H   Doran   55      Cotton Porter   bn Liverpool
Margaret   Doran   41   bn Workington, Cumberland
Mary A   Doran   2   bn Liverpool
C H   Doran Son   13   bn Liverpool
RG11/3631 f103 p16

Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 11:33 GMT (UK)
Is this the 1881 census you mean  :-\
Richmond Row, Liverpool
John I H   Doran   55      Cotton Porter   bn iverpool
Margaret   Doran   41   bn Workington, Cumberland
Mary A   Doran   2   bn Liverpool
C H   Doran Son   13   bn Liverpool
RG11/3631 f103 p16
Yes!
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 11:33 GMT (UK)
Mother’s maiden name is Stewart:

DORAN, MARY  ANN mmn STEWART
GRO Reference: 1878  S Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 155

I assume this is the cert you have.

Jamjar
Yes that's the one I have
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 21 December 18 11:35 GMT (UK)
Could she have been married previously?

Jun 1877 Liverpool 8b 368a
BELL Margaret
DORAN John

Jamjar
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 21 December 18 12:04 GMT (UK)
Who did Mary Ann marry.  Could you please give census reference and details for her after her marriage.  Do you have her in 1891
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 21 December 18 12:12 GMT (UK)
I’ve been looking at the 1871 census using Margaret, her birth year +-2 and place of birth. Still thinking she may have been previously married.

The Stewart family with a son Joseph isn’t her, as they are on the 1881.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n6h/

Jamjar
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 21 December 18 12:33 GMT (UK)
Could she have been married previously?

Jun 1877 Liverpool 8b 368a
BELL Margaret
DORAN John

Jamjar

LancashireBMD index normally gives alternative surnames with a previous marriage for a female but there is nothing showing on this one.  :-\
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 13:06 GMT (UK)
I can't find the reference number for the marriage cert but the details are:
married: 30/01/1897
John Potter, 24, bachelor, baker, Gt Crosshall street, father (Robert Potter, Mariner)
Mary Ann Doran, 19, spinster, -, Gt Crosshall street, father (John Doran, shipwright)
married at St Peter's Church, Liverpool
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 21 December 18 13:08 GMT (UK)
It was the census we need reference numbers for  :)
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 13:16 GMT (UK)
Hi sorry, these are the references for Mary Ann on the census'

1881 Piece; 3631, Folio; 103, Page number; 16
1901 Piece; 3407, Folio; 72, Page number; 14
1911; 22161
1939 sch 18, enumeration district; NHAO, registration district; 453-1

Thanks
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 21 December 18 13:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you, I wonder where she was (and her parents) in 1891
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 13:30 GMT (UK)
Same, I have struggled to find her in a census of 1891.
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 21 December 18 19:15 GMT (UK)
Several John Henry Doran marriages in Liverpool, usually is a cotton porter, father John Doran, (cotton) broker (including those to Margarets Hannah & Henry) Are they all the same person?
One marriage was in 1853 to Alice Harris. But he was found guilty of bigamy in 1855, having previously married Catherine Sullivan in Liverpool in 1841 (Q: "was the prisoner not a mere boy at that time; aged sixteen")
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 21 December 18 19:31 GMT (UK)
LancashireBMD index normally gives alternative surnames with a previous marriage for a female but there is nothing showing on this one.  :-\

That's how I've found it to be as well, but for the John H Doran - Margaret Henry marriage in 1885 there doesn't seem to be anything on there to indicate two names for the bride. But she was a widow :(
John
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rubymelia on Friday 21 December 18 20:35 GMT (UK)
Ahh thank you for your replies, it's all a bit confusing, so many names hard to put a finger on which ones are relevant.
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 21 December 18 20:42 GMT (UK)
LancashireBMD index normally gives alternative surnames with a previous marriage for a female but there is nothing showing on this one.  :-\

My widowed ancestor married for 2nd time using her maiden name (1861). Surname of her first husband wasn't on the marriage certificate.
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: garstonite on Friday 21 December 18 20:55 GMT (UK)
is this any good on www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk

1877   211   ST ALBAN   JOHN   JOANNEM   DORAN   MARGARET    MARGARITAM    BELL

church record  ??  or is Margaret Bell not who you are looking for - I got a little confused
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: ChrissieL on Friday 21 December 18 21:28 GMT (UK)
I can't find a birth for C H Doran aged 13 on the 1881 census.  I wondered if this was Margaret's son from a former marriage.
There is a Charles Henry Stewart
GRO 1868 Mar Qtr Liverpool mmn Kenny

But I can't find a Stewart /Kenny marriage


Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: Annette7 on Saturday 22 December 18 01:12 GMT (UK)
In 1891 John H. Doran is listed as 'Henry' Doran  65   Cotton Porter (as in 1881) and with him are Mary Doran  dau. aged 12 - they are shown as 'lodgers' and Margaret is not with them although 'Henry' shown as married.

Annette
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 22 December 18 08:45 GMT (UK)
I can't find the reference number for the marriage cert but the details are:
married: 30/01/1897
John Potter, 24, bachelor, baker, Gt Crosshall street, father (Robert Potter, Mariner)
Mary Ann Doran, 19, spinster, -, Gt Crosshall street, father (John Doran, shipwright)
married at St Peter's Church, Liverpool

Who were the witnesses
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 22 December 18 09:00 GMT (UK)
I can't find the reference number for the marriage cert but the details are:
married: 30/01/1897
John Potter, 24, bachelor, baker, Gt Crosshall street, father (Robert Potter, Mariner)
Mary Ann Doran, 19, spinster, -, Gt Crosshall street, father (John Doran, shipwright)
married at St Peter's Church, Liverpool

Who were the witnesses

Daniel HAYES
Elizabeth BELLIS
Title: Re: A changed surname?
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 22 December 18 09:07 GMT (UK)
Thank you, probably not related then  :-\