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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: philipsearching on Friday 21 December 18 16:50 GMT (UK)

Title: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: philipsearching on Friday 21 December 18 16:50 GMT (UK)
I know there have been threads along the lines of: which ancestor would you like to meet?  and
which historical period would you like to visit or live in?, but this is a little different.

My question is: if you could go back in time, who would you went to shout at, and why?

To start the ball rolling - I would go back and shout at every studio photographer who took photographs of soldiers and didn't include the headgear.  They make identifying regiments or corps a nightmare!

(note to moderators - if this thread should be in "Totally off-topic" please accept my apologies and move it).
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: clairec666 on Friday 21 December 18 16:55 GMT (UK)
I found a potential ancestor whose baptism is recorded in 1761 - his father is named but not his mother. All the other baptisms in the parish at the time name both parents, but for my potential ancestor they've written "John and... " and left a gap.

I wonder if somebody was going to check the name of the mother and fill it in later....

So if I could shout at someone in the past, or rather have a quiet word in their ear, I'd say "remember that gap you were going to fill in later...."
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: andrewalston on Friday 21 December 18 17:10 GMT (UK)
Yes, those clergymen (and registrars) who wrote down only the absolute minimum in the registers.

Baptism is supposed to be a major event in a person's life, and you can't be bothered writing more than six words about them? Shame on you!
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: coombs on Friday 21 December 18 17:13 GMT (UK)
I'd shout at all the priests who, in various but many parishes, did not put mothers name down on baptisms prior to 1813.

I'd shout at whoever left a huge splodge of ink on the entry that is very likely my ancestor's much needed marriage. I can read the grooms surname and bride's first name but nothing more, and it is the right date and parish for my ancestor's wedding.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Guy Etchells on Friday 21 December 18 17:49 GMT (UK)
I would not shout at anyone, I would try to politely explain why people in the future might need more details than they supplied etc.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 21 December 18 18:00 GMT (UK)
I seldom shout.
I would grumble at the priest who forgot to write up the baptism of Agnes, my 4xGGM in 1765. The Catholic chapel was at the Hall. Lady Jane, the lady of the manor gave birth to a daughter on the same day. Her information takes up half a page in the baptism register. Did it use up all the ink supply? Did the quill break? Did the priest toast the happy event too indulgently, fall asleep and forget all about my ancestor?   :-[ In contrast I would like to thank the Anglican curate for recording the birth of my Agnes in his baptism register, as he did for her siblings, her future husband and all other Catholics in the parish, for decades.  :)
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: philipsearching on Friday 21 December 18 18:11 GMT (UK)
I would not shout at anyone, I would try to politely explain why people in the future might need more details than they supplied etc.
Cheers
Guy

Guy - you are the voice of reason.  I, on the other hand, am a grumpy old git!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: clairec666 on Friday 21 December 18 21:47 GMT (UK)
Agree about not shouting at anyone. Perhaps a tap on the shoulder and a polite word in their ear? I would like to meet a few Smith families in my tree and suggest to them that they give their children some middle names. :D
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: coombs on Friday 21 December 18 22:40 GMT (UK)
Maybe not shout, but politely ask them. I think parish registers were not made really to aid in genealogical research, but probably for inheritance disputes, or keeping a list of names. for instance an elderly lady in 1800 wanted to prove to authorities or whoever that her husband died in 1766 in a Norwich parish, and she says the name, and the records are sought and the burial record is found. James Smith buried 27th August.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Nanna52 on Friday 21 December 18 22:50 GMT (UK)
I would definitely shout at my cousin to let me know where and when he married his second wife and who was she?    Or on second thoughts did you marry her or just call her your wife in your will?  Heavens above your first wife died in 1942 so it wasn't a case of leaving her.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Erato on Friday 21 December 18 23:17 GMT (UK)
Well, rather than complain, I'd like to give a shout-out to Mr. Charles L. Bishop, census enumerator in district 1078, Brooklyn, N.Y. in 1920, who defied authority and did not follow instructions.  He did not record the birthplace of Elizabeth Stalla's father as simply 'England,' but, rather, 'Cambridge, England.'  And with that slender clue, I was able to track him down.  Thank you, Mr. Bishop.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Caw1 on Saturday 22 December 18 00:57 GMT (UK)
Don't think I want to shout despite the frustration of trying to identify which family my Henry Guy (1801-1845) belonged to..... there are a few candidates but nothing conclusive.... wasn't it usual for the first son to be named after the grandfather?  ...... well I've no John's on my family....

SO WHICH FAMILY DID YOU BELONG TO HENRY?

I've thrown the computer & iPad at the wall, figuratively speaking, so many times in frustration.... just one little clue woukd do...

So that's me shouting if you like.

Caroline
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: pharmaT on Saturday 22 December 18 16:35 GMT (UK)
Yes, those clergymen (and registrars) who wrote down only the absolute minimum in the registers.

Baptism is supposed to be a major event in a person's life, and you can't be bothered writing more than six words about them? Shame on you!

Oh yes. "infant son of John Smith and his wife".  Annoyingly brief.

I'd like to shout at my 3x grt grandfather for abandoning my G3x Great Grandmother and my great great grandfather.  I'd also like to shout at the judge who, IMO passed down a disproportionately long sentence of 10 years when she became desperate and stole some food. 

Just to clarify, I'm not saying my 3x Great Grandmother didn't do wrong, and I'm not even saying that she shouldn't have been convicted just that 10 years for what the judge himself in the summing up 'a first offence' seems extreme.  Maybe I'm just judging by modern standards where convicted murders and rapists serve mere months.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: clairec666 on Saturday 22 December 18 16:45 GMT (UK)
Shades of Les Miserables there, pharmaT :)
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: rayard on Saturday 22 December 18 16:51 GMT (UK)
I would like to talk to the "Health and Safety" people who have flattened, buried or destroyed gravestones without mapping them or listing them first! (I do realise some were dangerous.)
I know 3xGt. Grandfather's gravestone is there but was laid flat and buried, wish I had X ray eyes because at least I know the spot from a map.
rayard.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Daonnachd on Saturday 22 December 18 17:31 GMT (UK)
Not shout "at" ..... but a shout "out" to whoever it was who decided that from 1855 all births marriages and death records in Scotland had to include all the names of most relevant people, including all the names of several times married women. Its been a Godsend to researching my father's side. ;D

But to whoever it was in England - why did you decide it wasn't worth the bother!  :(
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: jillruss on Saturday 22 December 18 17:38 GMT (UK)
 OLIVER  CROMWELL!!   >:(
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: pharmaT on Saturday 22 December 18 17:43 GMT (UK)
Not shout "at" ..... but a shout "out" to whoever it was who decided that from 1855 all births marriages and death records in Scotland had to include all the names of most relevant people, including all the names of several times married women. Its been a Godsend to researching my father's side. ;D

But to whoever it was in England - why did you decide it wasn't worth the bother!  :(

OH yes, but shout at the person who decided they should stop listing birthplace of parents on birth certificates.  Oh for an 1855 style one.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 22 December 18 17:44 GMT (UK)
OLIVER  CROMWELL!!   >:(

For lots of reasons. However in the interests of balance, also King Charles.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: philipsearching on Saturday 22 December 18 20:27 GMT (UK)
OLIVER  CROMWELL!!   >:(

For lots of reasons. However in the interests of balance, also King Charles.

And Duke William (push off back to Normandy you literal b*st*rd!)
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: andrewalston on Saturday 22 December 18 20:59 GMT (UK)
A big hurrah for the Rev. William Dade, and Archbishop Markham who decided that Dade's idea of writing down a lot of info in the registers was a good one.

And all those clergymen outside the York diocese who took up at least some of Dade's ideas even when they didn't officially need to.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Saturday 22 December 18 21:36 GMT (UK)
Not so much a shout .. more perhaps a groan ..

When I looked for the marriage entry of my two x Great Grandparents Edward Senior and Mary Innes I found that the person who was writing up the registers had decided to omit all information about Fathers and to leave this blank instead on all marriages.  When I enquired with the registrar I was told the marriage certificate was exactly the same - blank where Fathers' information should be.

I wonder what was behind this?  Perhaps they had kind motives - people born illegitimately could treated censuriously back then.  I suppose if you were illegitimate at that time you might have had a weight lifted off your mind going to that Church.  No having to make up a Father's name or no embarrassment having to admit the truth.

I also groan about the fact that Mother's information is not included on marriage certificates.  Were they not important too?

However, I would like to shout at those back in the days of yore who thought it fit to censure unmarried mothers but to let putative Father's seemingly off the hook.  For instance, you never hear of any putative Father having to serve time in a cruel, harsh unforgiving laundry establishment do you?

Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: pharmaT on Saturday 22 December 18 21:43 GMT (UK)
Not so much a shout .. more perhaps a groan ..

When I looked for the marriage entry of my two x Great Grandparents Edward Senior and Mary Innes I found that the person who was writing up the registers had decided to omit all information about Fathers and to leave this blank instead on all marriages.  When I enquired with the registrar I was told the marriage certificate was exactly the same - blank where Fathers' information should be.

I wonder what was behind this?  Perhaps they had kind motives - people born illegitimately could treated censuriously back then.  I suppose if you were illegitimate at that time you might have had a weight lifted off your mind going to that Church.  No having to make up a Father's name or no embarrassment having to admit the truth.

I also groan about the fact that Mother's information is not included on marriage certificates.  Were they not important too?

However, I would like to shout at those back in the days of yore who thought it fit to censure unmarried mothers but to let putative Father's seemingly off the hook.  For instance, you never hear of any putative Father having to serve time in a cruel, harsh unforgiving laundry establishment do you?


Women weren't considered important at all.  You'll find today, still people ready to give single mothers a hard time and blame them for all and sundry.

Incidentally, this is why I love Scottish certificates.  Both marriage and death certificates have the names of father and mother (where known) and have done since they began in 1855.  it is so useful, not just for knowing the mothers name but for narrowing down for example which child belongs to which John Smith.   
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: coombs on Saturday 22 December 18 21:53 GMT (UK)
Dade registers are great, and from 1798 to 1812 often in Co Durham, birthplaces of parents were listed, or natives of. I was able to prove my Scottish ancestor living in Bishop Auckland as it said he was a native of Selkirk, Scotland. If only all counties in the UK had that.

Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 22 December 18 21:58 GMT (UK)
My Irish Ancestors...to please put down on the census returns where in Ireland you were born!
Carol
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 22 December 18 22:00 GMT (UK)
OLIVER  CROMWELL!!   >:(

For lots of reasons. However in the interests of balance, also King Charles.

And Duke William (push off back to Normandy you literal b*st*rd!)

I'll second that suggestion to Duke William. Although I appreciate Norman architecture.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: candleflame on Saturday 22 December 18 22:05 GMT (UK)
I'd politely enquire of one branch of the tree who carefully wrote a date in the front of their family bible which implied it was the date of their wedding, however I can't find any proof of it ANYWHERE! .......
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Greensleeves on Saturday 22 December 18 22:16 GMT (UK)
I would like to ask my 9x gt grandfather, one John Pearle of Rattlesden, Suffolk why, when his eldest son Thomas died in 1649 leaving a widow and six children, did he make a new will leaving everything to his surviving son, and making no provision whatsoever for Thomas's widow and children?   The surviving son had married well and he and his side of the family subsequently prospered.  But for the descendants of Thomas, they spent the following two hundred years  being humble Ag Labs, with occasional recourse to the workhouse, until the arrival of the railways went some way to restoring their prosperity.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 22 December 18 22:48 GMT (UK)
I'd have a serious conversation with a relative of a daughter-in-law of 4x great-grandparents about his plantation and his slaves in Jamaica. He must have died by 1793; his widow re-married then. My concern would probably mystify him. 
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: kooky on Sunday 23 December 18 08:32 GMT (UK)
I would like to ask my grandmother's sister, Kathleen [known as Kit] Boshell who her mother was! GT GR mother died 5 years earlier ???

I would also  like to ask my grandfather's brother Hugh Alexander Kane who his wife was. :-\

Kooky
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: coombs on Sunday 23 December 18 15:41 GMT (UK)
I'd ask the vicar of Wethersfield, Essex why he only put down that Joseph Tiffin had 2 twin daughters in 1736, and not their names. One of them may have been Maria, as a Maria Tiffin died as an infant, daughter of Joseph. I think Joseph's wife was Sarah, as a Sarah Tiffin, wife of Joseph died in 1773 in Wethersfield.

In 1759 my ancestor Susannah Tiffin married Andrew Page. Witnesses seemed regular ones (typical). They had a daughter Sarah in 1763. Would have been great to know the other name of the twin daughters born to Joseph in 1736.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Debra Sleith on Friday 28 December 18 00:05 GMT (UK)
Ditto, and I would nicely ask every single one of my ancestors to please, please! write names and dates on the back of photos
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: jaybelnz on Friday 28 December 18 00:58 GMT (UK)
I would like to ask my 3 X Irish great grandparents what their mother's maiden names were, none of whom were named on their Irish marriage cert! .???  Another Bah Humbug!  😢😢
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Jackiemh on Friday 28 December 18 03:06 GMT (UK)
I would like to ask my ggg grandparents where they were born and who their parents were, politely of course.
Also, information on their siblings! Wouldn't that be lovely!
Jackie
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Guy Etchells on Friday 28 December 18 08:06 GMT (UK)
I'd have a serious conversation with a relative of a daughter-in-law of 4x great-grandparents about his plantation and his slaves in Jamaica. He must have died by 1793; his widow re-married then. My concern would probably mystify him. 

Interesting, would you also talk to the native Africans who captured and sold their fellow countrymen to the white traders in the first place?
People seem to forget native cultures had been enslaving their neighbours all over the world for centuries that is how the world developed.
There were very few societies that did not embrace slavery at on time or another.
That does not make it right but we must be very careful in judging the past using today's values.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Gillg on Friday 28 December 18 11:13 GMT (UK)
I'd like to remonstrate with the judge who sentenced a distant relative age 9 or 10 to 21 days hard labour and 4 years Reformatory School hundreds of miles away from his family. http://vcp.e2bn.org/prisoners/2043-1811-dennis-fairey.html  Dennis was punished for stealing a loaf of bread and some fruit and nuts.  It was just before Christmas and he was the youngest member of a very large and poor family. I expect he was trying to help. His father had already been jailed for neglecting the family.  Many children were sent abroad from Reformatory School, but at least Dennis escaped that and returned to his family.  Was he a reformed character?  We don't know, just that he never married, had a job as a "coach maker/carriage iron worker" in later censuses and lived to the age of 80.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: LizzieW on Friday 28 December 18 16:58 GMT (UK)
Quote
Not shout "at" ..... but a shout "out" to whoever it was who decided that from 1855 all births marriages and death records in Scotland had to include all the names of most relevant people,

Exactly, having found my grandfather's death record on Scotlandspeople, I saw that it gave his parents' names, including his mother's maiden name.  It didn't give my gran's name though, - nothing like husband of x - as he was killed in a motorcycle accident in Scotland whilst his wife and family were in Manchester and someone else was the informant.  However, his mother's maiden name opened up a whole new avenue for me.  I didn't need my gran's name I knew who she was as she lived until I was about 10.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Friday 28 December 18 17:40 GMT (UK)
Gillyg, I don't blame you about wanting to remonstrate with the judge about the extremely harsh sentence passed on your ancestor.  This is such a sad story about Dennis.  I think he may have been a good hearted boy just wanting to help his poor and perhaps very hungry  family.  I think we cannot judge anyone for theft by todays standards as who knows what any of us might have done if we had lived during those harsh times.  No food banks then sadly.  What a dilemma a lot of people must have had .. not enough money and starving .. should they steal or go to the workhouse and have the family split up.  Workhouse conditions were often quite bad too and people risked their lives going in.. constitutions broken down through hard labour and scant poor diets. :-\

Seeing that photo of little Dennis makes you just want to reach back in time and rescue the poor mite. :'(

I would like to remonstrate with the judge too and ask him if he felt absolutely sure he would not have done the same in Dennis's circumstances. 
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 28 December 18 21:12 GMT (UK)
I'd have a serious conversation with a relative of a daughter-in-law of 4x great-grandparents about his plantation and his slaves in Jamaica. He must have died by 1793; his widow re-married then. My concern would probably mystify him. 

Interesting, would you also talk to the native Africans who captured and sold their fellow countrymen to the white traders in the first place?
People seem to forget native cultures had been enslaving their neighbours all over the world for centuries that is how the world developed.
There were very few societies that did not embrace slavery at on time or another.
That does not make it right but we must be very careful in judging the past using today's values.
Cheers
Guy
The difference is that I have a name for the plantation owner. I know who he was, where he lived and the names of his slaves.
Note that I said "I would have a serious conversation with",  not that I would upbraid him and I realise that he would be unlikely to understand my point of view. However, some of his contemporaries were anti-slavery and upheld what might be called modern values.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: sharonmx5 on Saturday 29 December 18 15:46 GMT (UK)
I would politely ask my Great Grandmother if she could please pass on through the generations the story of her birth and life in India and her Indian/British ancestors, nothing of which is known to us.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Ayashi on Saturday 29 December 18 16:04 GMT (UK)
Since we are shouting out a few people, I'd like to add Shute Barrington to the mix!

I'd like to sort out all of the Brady's in Cornhill, as I think they are all one big family at the time, back to the marriage of William BRADY to Isabel. Isabel who I shall never know. Also the mother of my 4th great grandmother on that line who may always be in my tree as Margaret the Widow. Like others, I also have one child born in my tree where as I recall the person writing forgot to add both the name and the sex...

Off the top of my head I can think of a few people on mum's side whose records have frustrated me but nobody whose actions would cause me to reach through time and slap them.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Saturday 29 December 18 22:56 GMT (UK)
If I could I think part of me would want to shout out to various people in the past to warn them about things.

Amongst those included would be my Grandfather's cousin who in the late 1800s married quite a violent man and judging from the newspapers she became a victim of domestic abuse for quite a number of years.  She did leave him at one point but then returned.  She likely got a brief respite during the Great War when her horrible husband went off to fight but he was one of those who survived and came back.  They stayed together till her death.   I have seen a photo of this man in the Police mugshot album at the archives and I must say he gives me the chills.  The only thing is if it was possible for me to warn her and stop the marriage I would also be stopping the existence of all their descendants who I know of to this day.  It would be quite a dilemma as I would not want her to suffer as she did but I would also not want to prevent others' existence.

Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Saturday 29 December 18 23:01 GMT (UK)
I might shout "Duck!!!!" at JFK.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Saturday 29 December 18 23:06 GMT (UK)
On the subject of presidents ..  :) ;)

I might shout out "Cancel the theatre tonight!" to Abraham Lincoln .
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 30 December 18 11:38 GMT (UK)
On the subject of presidents ..  :) ;)

I might shout out "Cancel the theatre tonight!" to Abraham Lincoln .

These last examples show why time travel would be very risky if possible.
Think of the unexpected consequences if we could go back in time and actually change something, we could be the cause of a world war or something like penicillin not being discovered, through tampering in the course of history.

For example an anti-bomb protestor could go back and prevent the atomic bomb being developed (perhaps a worthwhile achievement), but possibly resulting in the world being totally destroyed by chemical weapons.

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: JenB on Sunday 30 December 18 11:51 GMT (UK)
Since we are shouting out a few people, I'd like to add Shute Barrington to the mix!

Thank you for adding Shute Barrington. I was going to add his name a few days ago then completely forgot.

Here he is in all his glory. https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/shute-barrington-17341826-bishop-of-durham-17911826-43613  Family historians with ancestors in the north-east owe him a great debt.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: clairec666 on Sunday 30 December 18 12:01 GMT (UK)
Think of the unexpected consequences if we could go back in time and actually change something, we could be the cause of a world war or something like penicillin not being discovered, through tampering in the course of history.

For example an anti-bomb protestor could go back and prevent the atomic bomb being developed (perhaps a worthwhile achievement), but possibly resulting in the world being totally destroyed by chemical weapons.

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who wouldn't have been born if it wasn't for WW2. So preventing Hitler being born might be a worthwhile intervention, but would prevent me from existing.

Hopefully if I encouraged vicars and parish clerks to use nice readable handwriting and record as much information as possible...Ö That's less likely to have an impact on major historical events, but could have a major positive effect on our research. ;D
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Sunday 30 December 18 13:08 GMT (UK)
I agree that meddling could have other consequences, potentially disastrous but I think if we could time travel it might sometimes be very difficult to resist.  Just as well I am stuck in the here and now. ;D

Talking of good things coming out of war - I think that despite all the hard work/efforts of the suffragettes/suffragists I don't think women would have received the vote without the Great War.  Up until then I think it was generally assumed that women were incapable of having any rational or worthwhile thoughts and that they were best off confining themselves to the home spheres and letting the more 'intelligent' men in their lives speak for them and manage how things were run and how their money was spent etc.  However, I think that because of necessity when women were needed to step up in droves to do work previously done by men and they managed to keep the country running so well on the home front .. all of this false belief about women and their lack of capability began to (albeit gradually) fall apart.  So that is one thing I am grateful for .. that the women then were amazing on the home front and I believe it was this that eventually led to women getting the vote without unconditionally. :)

Claire, I totally agree with your comment on handwriting and providing more detailed information.  If only some of them could have travelled to the future to see how important this matter is to enthusiastic family historians. :). I would also remonstrate with our ancestors and would say .. " Please try to be more truthful or careful about your answer on place of birth and try to be consistent with this on each census.". I would also say to them expand a bit more . . "I want to know more than just you were born in Ireland .. Ireland is a big place .. where was your home town/village?"

I would also remonstrate with the editor/publisher of the Illustrated Chronicle - great as that newspaper was and that this has supplied us with many war ancestors' photos.  My moan about this newspaper is that the print of some of the articles and death notices is incredibly small.  I would ask them if they thought their readership was made up of educated birds of prey  as only such creatures could be expected to read some of the tiny print without difficulty.

Some of the early editions of other newspapers such as the Shields Daily News was the same.   So I would say them - please increase your print size so people can stop reading without having to have their nose on the page to do so. ;D
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: coombs on Sunday 30 December 18 15:39 GMT (UK)
I'd go back to 1600 and be part of the UK government back then to make it mandatory for baptism registers to put mother's maiden name, marriage registers to have parents names of spouses and burials to have an age listed. It would make it easier for us genealogists but I would have it enacted so that it is easier to prove relationships when it comes to probate and inheritance disputes.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: jaybelnz on Sunday 30 December 18 20:30 GMT (UK)
I would time travel in a wink if I knew I would meet up with the wonderful Jamie Fraser of Outlander fame!  Sigh!!!  ;D
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 30 December 18 22:01 GMT (UK)
I agree that meddling could have other consequences, potentially disastrous but I think if we could time travel it might sometimes be very difficult to resist.  Just as well I am stuck in the here and now. ;D

Talking of good things coming out of war - I think that despite all the hard work/efforts of the suffragettes/suffragists I don't think women would have received the vote without the Great War.  Up until then I think it was generally assumed that women were incapable of having any rational or worthwhile thoughts and that they were best off confining themselves to the home spheres and letting the more 'intelligent' men in their lives speak for them and manage how things were run and how their money was spent etc.  However, I think that because of necessity when women were needed to step up in droves to do work previously done by men and they managed to keep the country running so well on the home front .. all of this false belief about women and their lack of capability began to (albeit gradually) fall apart.  So that is one thing I am grateful for .. that the women then were amazing on the home front and I believe it was this that eventually led to women getting the vote without unconditionally. :)

snip

Not so women did in fact have the vote far earlier than that, they could vote in local elections and a few could vote in the parliamentary elections.

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Nanna52 on Sunday 30 December 18 22:26 GMT (UK)
Australia gave women the vote in 1902 in federal elections and the states followed in the next few years.  New Zealand was even earlier.

Clairec666 I'm with you, my parents met during WW2 and I doubt they would have otherwise as dad was a country boy and mum a city girl.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Caw1 on Sunday 30 December 18 23:03 GMT (UK)
Mine too, Nanna! Although they were both living in Egypt before the war but I doubt their paths would have crossed if it hadn't been for the war..

Just picking up some of your points RTL... yes, it would be great if ancestors had put down where they were actually born and been consistent on each census, again with their actual birth dates.... but here's the thing.. some of them had no idea where they were born if they moved from that place as a child or exactly how old they were. Literacy wasn't the norm so filling in documents had to be done by someone else.. causing discrepancies perhaps because of local dialects and the person giving the information couldn't read it and say 'oh that's not correct' as they weren't able to read in the first place.
I wonder too how much of saying where you were born was to do with poor law payments, if you couldn't prove where you were born you couldn't be sent back.
Most of my ancestors seem to originate from London and there are certainly lots of boroughs within London making it difficult in some instances to pin them down! Oh for family who came from anywhere and stayed in that anywhere for large portions of their lives... it would make my job a great deal easier!
It is half the fun, and frustration, of FH to put on your detectives hat though isn't it!

Caroline
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Ayashi on Monday 31 December 18 09:32 GMT (UK)
Imagine if someone came up to you today and started shouting at you, saying that you are their great great great grandmother/father and all the things you did wrong  ;D

It'd be hard to go back in time and watch your x great grandparents proudly cradling their new baby and thinking "that one dies, and I know how", especially with a gruesome death like burning. I've thought about this with my 2xgt grandparents and their 11 children.

The birth order was William, Thomas, Thomas, Joseph, Mary Ann, Elizabeth Jane, Ethel, Elizabeth Jane, Olive, Charles Edward, Nora. The first Thomas was born prematurely and died within hours. The first Elizabeth Jane was born weak and died after 9 days. Charles Edward died at a few months old- we speculated on here that it might have been heatstroke. My ancestor was Olive and the mother would already have been pregnant with Nora when Charles Edward died. If I knew why Thomas was born premature (such as a fall or some other external trigger) then maybe he could be saved- but if he was born full term, this would affect the date of conception for the subsequent baby and all other subsequent babies, presumably then preventing the birth of Olive and therefore unwriting my line and preventing my birth. Same with Elizabeth Jane. However, if I saved Charles Edward (and sadly if we are right then his death probably was preventable), all children would still exist but then how might his being alive affect things? Would Olive still have met her husband? Who knows.

My grandmother's sister married my grandfather's brother- I believe that is how they met. My own parents met when they both got invited to a joint birthday party, although mum recognised him from church and apparently they'd already been introduced the year before but mum didn't remember. So if there was ever a moment like Back to the Future where two people need to dance together in order for me to be born, that party was apparently it.

Ayashi
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 31 December 18 10:10 GMT (UK)
What is the use of shouting?, we cannot change history unfortunately and it does no one any good, I have never been a shouter

Having said that I would like to have had a quiet word with my Gt grandmother, think she was a bit of a naughty girl in her time, named  father on one birth cert of her son   but took another man to court and got maintenance for this child, how could  you do that in those days, no DNA and the father stated on the birth cert as "dec" was very much alive but with another person calling her "wife", she had been married to him some 24 years previously then went on to live with my Gt grandfather and had another 10 children and never married him

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: pharmaT on Monday 31 December 18 10:17 GMT (UK)
Imagine if someone came up to you today and started shouting at you, saying that you are their great great great grandmother/father and all the things you did wrong  ;D

It'd be hard to go back in time and watch your x great grandparents proudly cradling their new baby and thinking "that one dies, and I know how", especially with a gruesome death like burning. I've thought about this with my 2xgt grandparents and their 11 children.

The birth order was William, Thomas, Thomas, Joseph, Mary Ann, Elizabeth Jane, Ethel, Elizabeth Jane, Olive, Charles Edward, Nora. The first Thomas was born prematurely and died within hours. The first Elizabeth Jane was born weak and died after 9 days. Charles Edward died at a few months old- we speculated on here that it might have been heatstroke. My ancestor was Olive and the mother would already have been pregnant with Nora when Charles Edward died. If I knew why Thomas was born premature (such as a fall or some other external trigger) then maybe he could be saved- but if he was born full term, this would affect the date of conception for the subsequent baby and all other subsequent babies, presumably then preventing the birth of Olive and therefore unwriting my line and preventing my birth. Same with Elizabeth Jane. However, if I saved Charles Edward (and sadly if we are right then his death probably was preventable), all children would still exist but then how might his being alive affect things? Would Olive still have met her husband? Who knows.

My grandmother's sister married my grandfather's brother- I believe that is how they met. My own parents met when they both got invited to a joint birthday party, although mum recognised him from church and apparently they'd already been introduced the year before but mum didn't remember. So if there was ever a moment like Back to the Future where two people need to dance together in order for me to be born, that party was apparently it.

Ayashi


My parents met at the dancing.  My paternal Grandparents met because she went into his family's shop to buy sweets.  Would love to know how my maternal Grandparents met.  They grew up miles apart both geographically and socially.

Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Caw1 on Monday 31 December 18 10:36 GMT (UK)
I doubt my parents would have met but for the war.... my mother was in Egypt working at the British Embassy, only because she couldn't get back to continue her studies in England! There she got friendly with another woman who was married to my father.... complicated I know bear with me!
My father and wife had two children close together and as my father was a fairly high ranking army officer attended lots of functions... according to my half sister one night wife says to my father 'why don't you take Joyce (my mum) to this do as I can't manage with these two little ones...... the rest is history so to speak...
But for that I'd not be here and my half siblings would have had a father for the rest of their lives so a turn in events makes all the difference!
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: YatesJones on Monday 31 December 18 12:05 GMT (UK)
Maybe not a shout but some encouragement for my maternal AND paternal grans to tell someone, anyone, their family stories.  Who their parents (dad in particular) were, where they lived, who their brothers and sisters were anything to go on would be a start!

One in Winchester and one in Birmingham and I cannot go back further than my grandmother on both sides!!!  Why oh why oh why was it all such a secret?!
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: clairec666 on Monday 31 December 18 12:38 GMT (UK)
Clairec666 I'm with you, my parents met during WW2 and I doubt they would have otherwise as dad was a country boy and mum a city girl.

For me, it's both sets of grandparents.
I'll start a new topic about this :)
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Monday 31 December 18 13:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Guy,

That is news to me regarding the vote.  I have read that women over the age of 30 were given the vote on 6 February 1918 if they were a member of or married to a member of the Local Government Register and that they only got the vote on the same terms as men (over 21) in 1928.

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Guy Etchells on Monday 31 December 18 18:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Guy,

That is news to me regarding the vote.  I have read that women over the age of 30 were given the vote on 6 February 1918 if they were a member of or married to a member of the Local Government Register and that they only got the vote on the same terms as men (over 21) in 1928.

Happy New Year!

Yes that is the commonly held view but do not believe all you read as much is propaganda.

Until the 1832 Reform Act women were not banned from voting in Great Britain, the legislation enfranchised all owners of freehold property or land worth at least forty shillings in a county. This obviously blocked many women but not all, for instance some married women held land & property in their own right at this time though most lost their right to the property as soon as they married.

62 years later the 1894 Local Government Act specifically allowed women to vote in elections for county and borough councils.

There are electoral registers & voters list which show a few women did vote during the early years.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Amberella on Tuesday 08 January 19 02:02 GMT (UK)
I would shout at:

a) All the Birketts of Berkshire who named their children either "George"  or "William" and all the Vanstones who named their boys "Tristram" and all the Tristrams who made darned sure they married a "Mary"!!

b) All the parents who named their present children after children who had died not that long ago.  For instance, one ancestor named daughter #1 Anne.  Anne unfortunately died at age 1.  A year later, the same parents named the next daughter Ann. She died after 2 years.  The next daughter was named Ann.  Fortunately she lived a nice long life.

c) The relative who "assumed" that their grandmother had died in 1903.  Unfortunately, I found that great-grandmother STILL ALIVE & married to the same man 8 years later.
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: lmfamilyresearch on Sunday 03 March 19 01:50 GMT (UK)
I would shout at my something g-grandfather Dr. A.A Rddel for not having a gravestone on the family plot.  Then I would ask him:
1) where are his parents buried, when did they die and where did they go after arriving in Toronto (if they didn't stay there); and
2) is the Wm Wood who gave you the medical dictionary the same as the Wm Wood who had a daughter in the Toronto Insane Asylum because she fell of a horse and was never the same since (this Wm Wood is a something g-grandfather).
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: jaybelnz on Sunday 03 March 19 07:05 GMT (UK)
A long term brick wall -  I would shout at the Registrar, (or other responsible person who didn't put the maiden name) of my 3x Irish Great grandmother's 1845 Dublin marriage certificate. -OR - maybe, if it was the case, the person who caused the fire that destroyed the Archives!

Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Genetrix on Sunday 21 April 19 19:05 BST (UK)
I'd like to ask my grandfather why he changed his surname. I wouldn't have been able to even start my family research if my father hadn't casually mentioned it just prior to his death. Felt completely betrayed as I've been wearing the wrong tartan all these years. GRR :'(
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: ms_canuck on Friday 03 May 19 16:49 BST (UK)
I would ask my grandfather why he deserted my grandmother, father & uncle.  He stayed with the 'other woman' and her sister until his death in 1963 - and left money to them in his Will!  I added the info into my tree - but it would be nice to have both sides of the story.

I also would not be here if not for WWII - my parents met because my mother was evacuated from London to North Wales (she was 18) to stay with two maiden aunts.  My Dad was a painter, and was outside a house painting when my mother walked by.

Ms_C
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: CelticAnnie on Friday 03 May 19 17:01 BST (UK)
I would not dare raise my voice to my great great aunt and her husband, who were housekeeper and head attendant at Burghill Lunatic Asylum for many years. But I should very much like to politely ask them if they would be kind enough to write subjects' names on the backs of all the photographs in their photo albums (which have come down to me) -- unfortunately, I now have no idea who the vast majority of these people are. :'(

CELTICANNIE
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 03 May 19 18:02 BST (UK)
Whilst I was looking after my mother during her chemo treatments the council suggested she had her kitchen decorated, what an upheaval for an 83 year old , so we were cramped up in her lounge with a box of photographs, she wrote as much as she could on the huge amounts of photographs, what I will do with them now I just don't know as I don't think my family want them. I do have one of my grandmother hop picking, the way the photo is taken she looks as  if she is pole dancing, I have named it " little granny pole dancing".
 makes me smile

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: If you could shout at someone from the past....
Post by: Viktoria on Friday 03 May 19 18:48 BST (UK)
People who ,when they write on the back of group photographs,by turning them actually put the wrong names on the backs of those photographed.
So:left to right, -Mrs Red,Mrs.Orange.Mrs.Yellow. Mrs.Green, as you look at it but by writing in that order on the reverse, Mrs .Red is on the back of Mrs .Green.

Red,Orange ,Yellow, Green,front. Green ,Yellow, Orange, Red.back.
So if the names are done in the order on the front  they are actually reversed.
But we donít know that for sure.
Oh, if only we knew.
Viktoria.