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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Saturday 22 December 18 22:10 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Hoping someone with better skills than me can help. I am looking for further details for the ancestry of William Duncan baptised 06 May 1850 Skene, Aberdeenshire, died 22 Jun 1930 Standyford, Aberdeenshire. He was a Farmer at Standyford, New Machar and I know he married a Margaret/Maggie Mitchell on 03 Dec 1896 at Hill of Middleton, Fintray, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. I also know that his father was Alexander Duncan (birth and death date unknown) and mother was Isabella Hogg (birth and death date unknown).
I can find William in the 1901 and 1911 with Maggie/Margaret and children census but am having trouble finding him in earlier censuses. I am also having trouble finding his parents marriage and also in the census. From William's marriage certificate it looks like his mother was married before as she is listed as Isabella Wright (I think, please see attached) m.s. Hogg. However, I can't find and Alexander Duncan marriage to an Isabella Wright (or Hogg) and I can't find and Isabella Hogg marrying a "Mr." Wright.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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HOGG
ISABELLA
DAVID WRIGHT/FR681 (FR681)
27/03/1846
468/
30 276
Tillicoultry
I have NO idea about location, whether that seems a possibility or not, but it is a Wright Hogg marriage
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In 1851 Isabella and William are at the home of Isabella's mum Margaret age 66born Strachan also there is Isabella's brother age 22 born Peterculter at Echt Aberdeenshire
Isabella surname on here is Hogg
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His mother's name is shown as Isabella Wright, M(aiden) S(urname) Hogg. Not Isabella Duncan, formerly Wright, MS Hogg. Therefore she was not married to Alexander Duncan.
Have you looked at the original image of the baptism record on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to see exactly what it says?
I think he is in the 1851 census at Mill of Ayre, Echt
Margret Hogg Head Mar 66 Stocking knitter Strachan
Robert Hogg Son Unm 25 Farm labourer Peterculter
Isabella Hogg Daughter Unm 21 Visitor Skene
William Duncan Grandson 11 months Skene
What about this for 1861
Mains of Kinmundy, Newmachar
Alexander Duncan Head Mar 42 Farmer New Machar
Margaret Duncan Wife Mar 32 New Machar
William Duncan Son 11 Skene
Helen Duncan Daughter 19 New Machar
Margaret Duncan Daughter 4 months New Machar
and 1861, Mill o'Air, Echt
Margaret Hogg Head Wid 77 Crofter Pauper Strachan
Isabella Hogg Daughter Unm 30 Skene
Elisabeth Henry Granddaughter 7 Echt
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In 1861 I think he is with father:
Alexander Duncan 42 Farmer 87 Acres Employing 3 Labrs b. New Marchar
Margaret Duncan 32
William Duncan 11 b. Skene
Ellen Duncan 19
Margaret Duncan 4 Months
Frederick Webster 15
Address: Mains Of Kinmundy, New Marchar, Aberdeenshire
Monica
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From baby Margaret's indexed birth entry on 1 Dec 1860 in New Marchar, mother Margaret's maiden name is given as Margaret Burgess.
Likely Alexander was married before given the entry for his 19yr old daughter Ellen Duncan?
Monica
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There are 2 deaths in Scotland for Isabella Hogg other name Wright
1 age 59 in 1882 St Giles Midlothian
2 age 78 in 1887 Galashiels Selkirk
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I happen to know that Alexander Duncan who married Margaret Burgess was the son of Alexander Duncan and Agnes Bisset. Besides Margaret, born 1860, they had seven more children. Margaret Burgess was the daughter of Alexander Burgess and Helen Low, and granddaughter of William Burgess and Isabella Davie, and great-granddaughter of James Burgess.
1. Alexander Duncan
sp: Agnes Bisset
2. Alexander Duncan (d.1879)
sp: Margaret Burgess (b.1828;m.1860;d.1905)
3. Margaret Duncan (b.1860)
3. Alexander Duncan (b.1863)
3. Agnes Duncan (b.1864)
3. Isabella Bannerman Duncan (b.1866)
3. James Duncan (b.1868)
3. Andrew Duncan (b.1969)
3. Robert Duncan (b.1871)
3. Mary Duncan (b.1874)
1881 Census: Brokewynd, New Machar
Alexander Duncan Head M 62 Farmer 100 acres employs 2 New Machar
Maggie Duncan Wife M 52 New Machar
Maggie Duncan Daughter U 20 Domestic servant New Machar
Alexr Duncan Son U 18 Farm servant New Machar
James Duncan Son U 12 Scholar New Machar
Robt Duncan Son U 10 Scholar New Machar
Mary Duncan Daughter U 6 Scholar New Machar
Jas Montgomery Servant U 18 Farm servant agricultural labourer Ellon
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The marriage of Margaret Burgess and Alexr (as indexed) Duncan shows on 23 Feb 1860
in New Machar. Can easily see any more children for them.
This looks like Alexander in the 1851 census:
Alexander Duncan 32 Farmer Of 82 Ac (emply 2 Lab) b. New Marchar
Helen Duncan 9 daughter
Agnes Duncan 37 sister
James Rhind 23
James Mcintosh 12
Address: Craighead, New Marchar
Monica
ADDED: From FreeCen, Alexander is showing as a widower in 1851.
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There are 2 deaths in Scotland for Isabella Hogg other name Wright
1 age 59 in 1882 St Giles Midlothian
2 age 78 in 1887 Galashiels Selkirk
From the 1851 census, Isabella was born 1829/30. From the 1861, 1830/1.
The one in St Giles would have been born 1822/1823, and the one in Galashiels 1818/1819.
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1881 Census: 62 Hutcheon Street, Aberdeen
Isabella WRIGHT Head Wid 51 Skene, Aberdeen, Scotland
Margaret WRIGHT Dau U 17 Flax Weaver Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland
Isabella WRIGHT Dau U 15 Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland
These look like the daughters of William Wright and Isabella Ogg: Mary Ann Jane, born 30 July 1863; Isabella, born 8 December 1865. William Wright and Isabella Ogg were married in Aberdeen St Nicholas on 12 April 1862.
Isabella Ogg or Wright died in Aberdeen St Nicholas in 1881 aged 49.
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Good find, Forfarian. Must be her you would think.
Just as support notes to what you mentioned on the family line, there is a Family Search pedigree file (free to register, you need to be signed on to view) www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:S5H7-JR2
With details from this, and mention of Alexander's death in 1897 (at Broken Wynd, North Kinmundy, Newmachar?) there is an entry in the Wills & Testments section on Scotlands People which state:
Alexander Duncan
4/11/1897
farmer, residing at Brokenwynd in the parish of New Machar, d. 25/08/1897 at Brokenwynd, intestate, deponent Robert Duncan
Extract Inventory
Aberdeen Sheriff Court Inventories
SC1/36/132
Monica
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Very good. Too bad that he was intestate.
Yes, I can see that tree. Sources are given as FamilySearch and a stone in Newmachar graveyard. Nevertheless about half the dates of death on that tree are wrong. Never believe anything you find online unless it's an image of an original document.
BTW another descendant of Alexander Burgess and Helen Low was the almost legendary piper John Davie Burgess (1934-2005). I attended a recital he gave at the Garve Piping Society meeting in the early 1970s - he was superb.
I am also friendly with a great-great-grandson of William Burgess and Isabella Davie - I meet him most weekends, in fact, at a club we are both members of. I'll tell him about this thread when I see him after New Year.
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Alexander Duncan looks to be still at home in New Marchar in the 1841 census with his family.
One possibility for his marriage and mother to Helen born c. 1842 is this one:
Alexander Duncan and Margaret Black
Event Date 31 Jan 1841 in New Marchar
There is a Margaret showing in the Duncan household. A possibilty this could be his wife. Such minimal info on the 1841 census that it is hard to say really at this time. His death cert may well name both wives. Also, tracking young Helen to her marriage/death would let you confirm her mother's name hopefully.
Monica
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There a baptism of Helen Duncan to Alexander Duncan and Helen Dunn in New Machar on 4 November 1841. No obvious marriage however - maybe she was illegitimate too.
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Fantastic! Thank you for all this information, very much appreciated. I will go through an digest it all and come back with any further findings I can make.
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I thought I would start at the beginning and look at the original baptism entry, see attached. This confirms Alexander and Isabella were not married. There is a confusing entry in the margin, it says “Keith see page 84”. Not sure if it refers to an additional note for this entry or just refers to a missed entry. What do others think? If possibly an additional note for this entry I will try and follow it up, but no idea on how to look at a specific page in baptism?
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It's a missed entry, nothing to do with your William. Alexander Ewing Keith, son of Alexander Keith and Margaret Tough, baptised 10 May 1850 in Skene.
Good to see that you are looking at the original documents - that's the best way to confirm everything and make sure you have the correct interpretations of all the information, or, if not, that the errors are yours and not some random transcriber's or indexer's. For example, does the original of the 1861 census list Helen or Ellen Duncan? And was Robert Hogg 22 or 25 in 1851?
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1881 Census: 62 Hutcheon Street, Aberdeen
Isabella WRIGHT Head Wid 51 Skene, Aberdeen, Scotland
Margaret WRIGHT Dau U 17 Flax Weaver Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland
Isabella WRIGHT Dau U 15 Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland
These look like the daughters of William Wright and Isabella Ogg: Mary Ann Jane, born 30 July 1863; Isabella, born 8 December 1865. William Wright and Isabella Ogg were married in Aberdeen St Nicholas on 12 April 1862.
Isabella Ogg or Wright died in Aberdeen St Nicholas in 1881 aged 49.
Hello
Unfortunately it looks like Isabella Ogg is not Isabella Hogg. Isabella Ogg's marriage cert. has her parents as John Ogg and Margaret Sim, whereas from the 1851 census we have Isabella Hogg's parents as Robert Hogg and Margaret Unknown, so this requires a re-think. Regards
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Sorry! error on my part, just realised in 1851 that Robert Hogg is the son not the husband!!
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Possible entry for Isabella Hogg in 1841 census (parents would match the marriage record for Isabella Ogg, she is the right age, though no mention of brother Robert who appears in 1851 census)
Milton of Garlogie, Skene, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
John Hogg Male 56 1785 Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Margaret Hogg Female 54 1787 Aberdeenshire, Scotland
James Hogg Male 20 1821 Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Isabel Hogg Female 11 1830 Aberdeenshire, Scotland
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Isobel Hogg, daughter of John Hogg and Margaret Sim, was baptised in Skene on 26 August 1830.
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What do you think of the below entry which I think is for Elizabeth Hogg/Ogg and William Wright in 1871. There is an Eliza Hendry step daughter born 1864 listed, presumably the implication is she is Isabella's daughter and in 1861, when Isabella (unmarried) is living with her mother Margaret Elizabeth Henry age 7 grandaughter is mentioned. Therefore, it looks like Isabella had another illegitimate child??
Census Year: 1871
County: Aberdeenshire (ABD)
Place: Aberdeen
Civil Parish: St Nicholas
Ecclesiastical Parish: Aberdeen North
Piece: 168
Enumeration District: 32
Folio: 0
Page: 30
Schedule: 182
House Number: 11
House or Street Name: Jasmine Terrace
WRIGHT William Head M M 61 Tailor ABD Banchory-Devenick
WRIGHT Isabella Wife M F 40 ABD Echt
WRIGHT Mary Dau - F 7 Scholar ABD Aberdeen
WRIGHT Isabella Dau - F 5 Scholar ABD Aberdeen
HENDRY Eliza Stpdau F 17 Domestic Servant ABD Echt
HENDERSON James Grnson M 1m ABD Aberdeen
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For reference
booklet: Kirkyard of Newmachar (AA167)
burial ground: New Machar
stone: 108
James Duncan 14 Oct 1847
Alexander Duncan 2 Feb 1849
Agnes Bisset 5 Sep 1862
Agnes Duncan 22 Jan 1892
stone: 109
James Duncan 11 Oct 1882
Alexander Duncan 25 Aug 1897
Margaret Burgess 31 Dec 1905
Mary Duncan 24 Jun 1946
Isabella Bannerman 10 Dec 1946
Robert Duncan 10 May 1954
Agnes Duncan n.d.
Andrew Duncan n.d.
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What do you think of the below entry which I think is for Elizabeth Hogg/Ogg and William Wright in 1871. There is an Eliza Hendry step daughter born 1864 listed, presumably the implication is she is Isabella's daughter and in 1861, when Isabella (unmarried) is living with her mother Margaret Elizabeth Henry age 7 grandaughter is mentioned. Therefore, it looks like Isabella had another illegitimate child??
Yes, that looks like the right entry, and yes, I think it is very likely that Elizabeth Henry is another illegitimate child. I noticed the 7-year-old Elizabeth Henry in the 1861 census, and there is a baptism of Elizabeth Leslie Henry, daughter of Andrew Henry and Isabella Hogg, in Echt in 1854.