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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: M_ONeill on Thursday 27 December 18 23:51 GMT (UK)

Title: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: M_ONeill on Thursday 27 December 18 23:51 GMT (UK)
Hey all, so Iíve been trying to find the first marriage of my 2x great grandfather John OíNeill. I descend from his second marriage to a Jane McCann of Ballynenagh, county Derry. They were married in the R.C. chapel of Moneymore, on Jan 25th 1895. John is listed as a widower and his father is listed as a Michael OíNeill, still living. John is living in the townland of Ballydawley at the time of the wedding.

In looking for the first marriage, Iíve found one in the R.C chapel of Killeenan, County Tyrone, just to the west of Cookstown. The marriage took place on 18th November 1883 between a John OíNeill, aged 23 and a Bridget Sanner* (not sure on the reading of the surname. Itís listed as ĎSanverí on irishgenealogy.ie, but I think thatís a mis-transcription). Bride and groom are both living in Gortnagross, Tyrone. This Johnís age seems correct, based on later census entries, and the father is listed as a Michael OíNeill, living - so itís at least a candidate for being my 2x grandfatherís first marriage.

What I could help with is confirming whether this is indeed the right marriage. Iím still not very practiced with Irish records, so Iím not sure what information I could use to cross reference and check the match. Does anyone have any tips or advice on double checking these kind of Irish family history finds?
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: Sinann on Friday 28 December 18 00:22 GMT (UK)
Does John have children in the 1901 census too old to be his second wife's children?
If so find their births, for mothers name.
Look for a death of Bridget.
If no children with him in 1901, find children born to the couple to narrow down when Bridget could have died.
Look for John and Bridget in the 1901 census with those children to see if she is still living.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: solidrock on Friday 28 December 18 00:25 GMT (UK)
It's a pity John only made his mark and did'nt sign. His father was a laborer in one and a farmer in the other' Neither much help to you.

copyright images removed
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: M_ONeill on Friday 28 December 18 00:45 GMT (UK)
Hey all, thanks for the replies!

So in the 1901 census the only children seem to be from the second marriage, judging by age. I looked for a death record for a Bridget OíNeill, but Iíve yet to one that matches her age and general location.

@Solidrock, yeah itís a shame thereís no further identifying info on the marriage records. Thereís nothing to confirm itís the same person, but equally nothing that rules it out!

Iíll start looking for children of a John and a Bridget in the cookstown area between 1883 and 1895 and see if I find anything usefu. Thanks for the ideas!
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: solidrock on Friday 28 December 18 00:48 GMT (UK)
Looking at his condition on the second marriage it looks like widower but not clear.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: Sinann on Friday 28 December 18 00:49 GMT (UK)
Where does John say he is from in the 1901 Census?

Looked at a good few births and don't see any in Cookstown or a death.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: Sinann on Friday 28 December 18 00:54 GMT (UK)
Better still where are they in 1901 or a link please.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: M_ONeill on Friday 28 December 18 01:05 GMT (UK)
The 1901 census simply says born in county Derry for John. From 1901 he and family are living in a village called the Loup, Ballynenagh (about halfway between Moneymore and Ballyronan), on a farm owned by a Rose Donnelly, Johnís mother-in-law (mother and daughter donít share a surname as Jane was illegitimate and took the fatherís surname). I know that part of the tree is correct, as my great grandfather was raised on that farm, and distant cousins own it to this day.

So John was apparently born in county Derry, though he was living in Balleydawley when he remarried, which is the other side of Cooksdown from Gortnagross, southeast of Moneymore and south of the Loup.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: Sinann on Friday 28 December 18 01:23 GMT (UK)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Loop/Ballynenagh/1534997/

If he's from Derry, he's living in Derry, if he married a woman from Tyrone he may have brought her to Derry, so if they had children they may have been born in Derry.
Or he could have married a Derry woman.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: M_ONeill on Friday 28 December 18 10:13 GMT (UK)
So Iím currently a little stumped with this one. I canít find any records of children born to a John and a Bridget in the right time and place. The only death record I can find for a Bridget OíNeill that fits age-wise is one who dies in the Magherafelt workhouse in 1893 aged 30. That Bridget is listed as being from Ballymilligan (which I think these days is called Ballymulligan, itís on the road between Magherafelt and The Loup to the south), rather than Tyrone. Could that have been where she and John were living after marriage? It feels like a stretch to me. Sadly the informant for this Bridgetís death is the operator of the Workhouse and not a husband or relative.

So Iím not really sure where to go from here. Iíve yet to find any other marriage of a John whose father is a Michael OíNeill (who is still living) pre-1895.
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: Sinann on Friday 28 December 18 11:24 GMT (UK)
I'm getting no where either. If they did have children they must have moved after they married but where!
Title: Re: Help in confirming if I have the right marriage (Tyrone/Derry)
Post by: M_ONeill on Friday 28 December 18 12:08 GMT (UK)
Of course thereís always the possibility that Johnís first marriage was childless, especially if his first wife died young (sent to the workhouse due to illness? Itís a thought, I suppose).

Itís also entirely possible that I have the wrong first marriage, though Iíve not found a better candidate so far, based on age and listed relations. Thereís plenty of John OíNeills getting married with fathers named Michael in the area, but all of the fathers are listed as deceased in the marriage records (so dead pre-1895 and thus canít be the same father as listed in the second marriage).