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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Limerick => Topic started by: Jang on Friday 28 December 18 07:19 GMT (UK)
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This is probably not new for some but I've just discovered a great resource on the LDS site: Transcripts of memorials of deeds, conveyances and wills, 1708-1929
When I came across a marriage settlement in 1808 for my 3g grandparents (Jeffrey Keating and Johanna Kirby), I was excited to find the names of both my 4g grandfathers (James Keating of Gurrane and Patrick Kirby of Ballyhudane), which had previously eluded me. It also mentioned other family members which led to further marriage settlements and other records.
It's not the easiest resource to use. There are basic indexes of names as well as places (you need to know the townland) but it involves a lot of browsing to find the record you want. Still it was well worth it - I don't think the information I found is available anywhere else.
I now know that James Keating had at least four children:
Jeffrey Keating married Johanna Kirby 1808
Edmund Keating married Margaret Cameron 1809
Margaret Keating married Edmund Barry 1822
Still looking for Patrick :-)
Jan
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Jan,
It looks interesting. It would have been helpful if you had provided a link (URL) to the resource.
Peter
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Oops, sorry Peter, I forgot:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/185720?availability=Family%20History%20Library
It's a fascinating resource - especially for older records. For instance, I found James Keating was granted land in Knocknagranshy in 1790. By 1809 he was living in Limerick City, where his sons Edmund and Patrick were merchants.
Jan
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Jan,
It looks interesting. It would have been helpful if you had provided a link (URL) to the resource.
Peter
It is listed in Ireland Resources Section, with link to them!
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Link to Ireland Resources..
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/ireland-resources/
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Hallmark, thanks for pointing that out :-)
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Hallmark, thanks for pointing that out :-)
Just doing my good deed for the year! ;D
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Hallmark, thanks for pointing that out :-)
Just doing my good deed for the year! ;D
Good deed for 2019
Explain how to use this great resource. I've never been able to find anything.
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The original poster found a marriage settlement in 1808 for Jeffrey Keating by going to Grantor Index Catalog covering 1808 for Surname starting with the letter K and then looked at Index for registrations for those Surnames and noted the Book Numbers, Entry Number and Page No's...
Then on FS opened the relevant Film for the Book No, and looked for the entry.
In this case the Deed Book no. is 595 so you scroll through Catalog to find relevant book of Deeds (595) for that Year, open that Film and go to the Page....
m
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I was wondering what that Grantor Index was, so are they all marriage settlements?
BTW what is a marriage settlement?
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No... a mix of Wills, Deeds, Marriage Settlements which often give land to Groom, for example, with conditions!
e.g If wife dies childless Property returns to wife's family.... ;D
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example
https://irishdeedsindex.net/mem.php?memorial=83446
For marr portion, A (CARROLL Ephraim) agreed that on his death his estate would go to B (TOTTENHAM Barbara) in case of no chidren, if children, the one third to B with remainder to children.
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It's all people who owned land, gentry types.
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Majority are.
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Well at least I have some idea how to use it now, unlikely any of my lot are there but I can at least have a look now.
Thank you very much.
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You have yours on Griffith's.... so you know who they were Leasing from, no harm in checking!
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Think I found an entry in the index for De Penthony O’Kelly as O'Kelly John de P, so at least I have an idea how it's written in the index so can see if there is anything useful to find.
The Trustees of Wilsons Hospital I have a feeling won't be fun to find but I'll stick with the O'Kelly de P for now.
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if you get stuck just post a Link if you want....
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As you scroll through FILMS you need to check where you are on Index by looking at the Index "cards" located through films
,
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I'm giving up for the moment I can't find anything, going a bit bleary eyed looking at them, I not really expecting to find anything anyway.
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;D ;D I'm jet lagged! Bleary eyed when I woke this morning....
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Thanks, Hallmark, for explaining the process more clearly than I could have done.
The marriage settlements seem to be in the early 1800s - the only ones I found were 1808, 1809 and 1822 - all for Keating siblings.
I also found an example of a partnership - two brothers as grocers in Limerick City.
I think I got lucky with my first couple of searches because I looked for Keatings in the year of their possible marriage. Later on, I looked for Keatings around the time of their deaths, when land often changed hands.
It certainly is hard on the eyes. Good luck!
Jan
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Sinann,
I had a quick look for your John de Penthony O'Kelly. I found this reference:
1892 36 106 for him.
If you scroll down to the deeds, settlements etc part, and go to the listing for 1892 book 36 - the image you need on this reel is 150. It's #106 at the bottom of left hand page - from Dunford to Maher and mentions your John (of Ardmore), also a Peter de Penthony O'Kelly and a Mary Ann Thunder, formerly O'Kelly, wife of Patrick Thunder of Lage.
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No problem.....finding the first one is difficult but after that it gets easier.
I see you are looking for Nelsons in Donegal, is Horatio Nelson yours?
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/donegal/photos/tombstones/donegal-fahan/target25.html
Had to laugh when I saw name! ;D
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Sinann,
I had a quick look for your John de Penthony O'Kelly. I found this reference:
1892 36 106 for him.
If you scroll down to the deeds, settlements etc part, and go to the listing for 1892 book 36 - the image you need on this reel is 150. It's #106 at the bottom of left hand page - from Dunford to Maher and mentions your John (of Ardmore), also a Peter de Penthony O'Kelly and a Mary Ann Thunder, formerly O'Kelly, wife of Patrick Thunder of Lage.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-3492-F?i=149&cat=185720
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I wish! Of course the family story was tnat Margaret Nelson (who "married" Jeffrey Keating) was related and supposedly had one of his buttons! (Which by the way I saw when visiting the Royal Yacht Britannia in Edinburgh.)
And in one of those strange coincidences, I found my James Keating living in Limerick in Keatings Lane, just off Nelson St!
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Oops! I did it again and didn't think to post the link. Thanks, hallmark. :-)
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Oh, and in another one of those coincidences - I have Taylor/Oughton ancestors going back to the 1700s is Burnham Thorpe. Some were baptised/married by Edmund Nelson, and probably played with little Horatio :-)
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Sinann,
I had a quick look for your John de Penthony O'Kelly. I found this reference:
1892 36 106 for him.
If you scroll down to the deeds, settlements etc part, and go to the listing for 1892 book 36 - the image you need on this reel is 150. It's #106 at the bottom of left hand page - from Dunford to Maher and mentions your John (of Ardmore), also a Peter de Penthony O'Kelly and a Mary Ann Thunder, formerly O'Kelly, wife of Patrick Thunder of Lage.
Great find!!!
You get Names and Dates of the earlier Agreement too!
gg
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m
m
m
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Earlier OKelly Deeds Grantor index H-Q 1828-1832
On FS
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/185720?availability=Family%20History%20Library
you need to scroll down to relevant Volumes as per attachment. See how you get on looking for them as it will help you to look for/find things in the future!
I could look for you but better for you to try for yourself! ( Learning Curve ;D )
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Brilliant!
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Sorry, I wasn't looking for John de P O'Kelly, I was just saying I had found an example of the name.
I haven't looked yet to see what first names the O'Kelly's had. Their land was also run by Trustees by the late 1890s
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No problem.
At least you know how to look and steps to take! ;D
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No problem.
At least you know how to look and steps to take! ;D
Exactly, that was what I needed.
Now I need to take the time to look through my notes and see what to search for.
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Any idea where I go with this
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Facinating reading!
Look under E
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Will do, Thank you.
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Don't have time to look at moment or any bookmarked!
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No joy with E, I can't help thinking Sectional may refer to the Place name and Land indexes and there doesn't seem to be anything other than the index for them.
I'll try S.
Or at least I will when it opens with more than a page of little boxes saying Photo not available at this time
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L for Land Judge Courts which are later ones!!
You see it also says... See "Landed Estates Court"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN6-3S8G-F?i=37&cat=185720
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Right, I'll give L a try, cheers.
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I'm getting no where
I have this one Carter to Uniacke which appears to be a payment for a debt, Castlemartin is in Kildare not Westmeath. (Number 242)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-Y9V3-G?i=368&cat=185720
From the same year 1854 Blacker is in the papers as 'of Castlemartin' and they (or relations) were in Castlemartin House until Tony O'Reilly bought it in the 1970s, but they sold off Kilcullenbridge to Lewis (who already owned the rest of Kilcullenbridge) in 1863 (Number 272).
I can't find the change from Uniacke to Blacker.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-M9YJ-9?i=168&cat=185270
Looking at Wikipedia it say Blacker bought the house in 1854, think I need to go back and look for Carter again in the 1850 to 1859.
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If I remember correctly... Blackers changed their Surname or A Surname was changed to Blacker
can't remember which way around it was!!
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Ohh interesting.
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Think Uniacke may have been a red herring, I found another guy, Dickinson,getting Castlemartin and part of Kilcullenbridge in 1853, very confusing. At least it says Kildare this time.
Anyway now to see if Dickinson sold to Blacker..........fingerscrossed.
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What year ranges??
This from 1850's by using Land index: Kerry, Kildare, Kilkenny, Offaly (King's)1855-1859
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNX-F9GS-X?i=261&cat=185720
Barony = Kilcullen
n
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If you move along Next page Blacker is in Fox Grove, Kilcullen Bridge, Quarryland, and see IncumbdEstates... have always spelt it with an E
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNF-NLVQ?i=408&cat=185720 is Barony of Kilcullen in 1875-1879
Place name index by county, Kerry and Kildare 1875-1879
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No joy with Dickinson either.
I'm looking from 1853/54 went Uniacke or Dickinson got Castlemartin and a part of Kilcullenbridge to 1863 when Blacker sold that part of Kilcullenbridge to Lewis.
I just can't find when Blacker got it.
I have a Carter in the Taylor and Skinner maps 1777 at Castlemartin and have a Carter from 1825 owning part of Kilcullenbridge. Haven't tried to go back from 1825 yet, not sure when the house I'm interested in was built.
I have from Lewis buying it in 1863 up to 1944 when the Brown Estate was sold and the tenants bought their homes, my grandparents being one of those tenants and it's still in the family today. Someone from the family will have lived in the house 100 years next month.
I just can't fill in that gap.
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Blacker as Grantor and Grantee
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNF-VNPT?i=243&cat=185720
Place name index by county, Kerry, Kildare, Kilkenny and Offaly 1862-1864
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No joy with Dickinson either.
I'm looking from 1853/54
This one is messy and I have to go out but am at end of Kildare so just go DOWN in page numbers
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN6-T9PZ-Q?i=98&cat=185720
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Above is for
Land index: Galway, Kerry, Kildare, Kilkenny, Offaly, Leitrim, Limerick, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Londonderry, Meath, Monaghan, Leix, Tipperary, Tyrone, Waterford, Sligo, Roscommon, Westmeath 1850-1854
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Will do
Have to go as well.
Thanks for trying.
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I think at the moment the part of Kilcullenbridge I'm interested in has been included with Castlemartin Demesne because I've finally found Blacker as a Grantee
need to flick through a few more pages as I can see him on at least one other place and than see if I can find it in the deeds.
Finally feel like I'm making some progress.
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Depends on what you are looking for.....you saw the Landed Est to Blacker in Castlemartin and as a grantor and grantee in other years.
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This is the first time I found him as grantee, that's what was driving me mad.
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I fairly sure this is what I needed, but of course it's one that is very difficult to read.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ4-Q9W2-H?i=61&cat=185720
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It's always the way!! ;D ;D
Faint writing....or a blob of ink over a word that is needed!
don't forget to read others as there are often other people mentioned in them! "A house now occupied by....." or similar.
You're better off doing them yourself as you can then get a better understanding of changes over time (now that you've found your way around the records! ;D )
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I'm so worn out from it just now I feel like retiring.
Take a break and than put it all together is my plan at the moment.