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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 09:00 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
looking for the marriage of Ellen (Ellenor, Elleanor) Wilson (Writtle Essex 1832) and George Willson (Bearsted Kent).
I think they got married 1850-1853-ish.
I know their whereabouts census 1871. George died before census 1881.
Also know where Ellen was census 1861. But no George. He was a Gunner Royal Art. Where was he in 1851 ?
Any help grately appreciated.
Dutch MissMarple
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Are you saying both surnames were Wilson?
Do you have names of their children?
I too see the 1871, but not the 1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5T3-W5N
Jamjar
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yes both names wilson. But George's was Willson.
children: Rhoda Sarah (about 1856), Ellen Rebecca (about 1859), George Henry (about 1861) and Charlotte (about 1863).
As far as I know 4 children
DMM
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Born before marriage:
WILSON, RHODA SARAH - no mmn
GRO Reference: 1856 D Quarter in CLERKENWELL Volume 01B Page 480
Jamjar
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This one in Kent?
Sep 1858 West Ashford 2a 777
Willson, George
Wilson, Ellen
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This one in Kent?
Sep 1858 West Ashford 2a 777
Willson, George
Wilson, Ellen
It fits:
After marriage: WILLSON, ELLEN REBECCA mmn WILSON
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in NORTH AYLESFORD Volume 02A Page 308
WILLSON, GEORGE HENRY mmn WILSON
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in NORTH AYLESFORD Volume 02A Page 331
Jamjar
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A marriage in 1858, Q3 West Ashford, Kent, as jon has said.
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Where are the children in 1871?
Jamjar
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Is this Charlotte? I’m not seeing anything else for her:
WILSON, CHARLOTTE ANN mmn WILSON
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 141
Jamjar
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Charlotte was born East Indies.
They are all with the parents 1871. Don’t know why it doesn’t show on familysearch
Might explain absence in 1861
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Charlotte was born East Indies.
They are all with the parents 1871. Don’t know why it doesn’t show on familysearch
That’s interesting. :)
Jamjar
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census 1871 shows Rhoda Sarah is born in Islington not Clerkenwell…..
DMM
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Census 1871 shows that Charlotte was born Higham Kent
Adress at that time was Plymouth, St. Andrew in Devon.
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Baptism is on FindMyPast
2 jan 1863
Parents George and Ellen
He is corporal no 5 battery, 23rd. Brigade R.A.
Added . At Bellary Scotch Church, Bellary, Madras
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Census 1871 shows that Charlotte was born Higham Kent
Adress at that time was Plymouth, St. Andrew in Devon.
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census 1871 shows Rhoda Sarah is born in Islington not Clerkenwell…..
DMM
I’d consider GRO as being correct rather than a census. Does GRO show place of registration and the census where born. Doesn’t have to be the same thing here in Australia.
Don’t know what you a Mckha are looking at then for the 1871.
Maybe you could both list the census entries you are looking at.
Jamjar
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Possibility?
Baptism of an Eleanor Wilson in Writtle, 3 June 1832
Parents Thomas + Rebecca
Father a Shoemaker
Image of BT here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLD-8VC?i=1922&cat=521329
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census 1871 shows Rhoda Sarah is born in Islington not Clerkenwell…..
DMM
I’d consider GRO as being correct rather than a census. Does GRO show place of registration and the census where born. Doesn’t have to be the same thing here in Australia.
Don’t know what you a Mckha are looking at then for the 1871.
Maybe you could both list the census entries you are looking at.
Jamjar
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 2124
Folio 6
Page 11
For George Ellen and first three children, Charlotte is on the next page as per my clip
Added. Clerkenwell and Islington are right next to each other.
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I only have FamilySearch to look at. I meant it would be useful if you both typed up the details.
One of you is looking at the incorrect family.
Jamjar
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Here is Charlotte on the 1881, with surname WILLSON. Born Madras:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK61-ZXM7
Jamjar
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I only have FamilySearch to look at. I meant it would be useful if you both typed up the details.
One of you is looking at the incorrect family.
Jamjar
George Willson 42 Gunner Royal Arty. Kent Bearstead
Ellen 38 wife of do. Essex, Writtle
Rhoda Sarah dau 14, Middlesex Islington
Ellen Rebecca dau 11, Kent Higham
George Hy, son, 9 Kent, Higham
Next page
Charlotte 8 dau, East Indies
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Charlotte 8 dau, East Indies
On FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5T3-W52
Census can be awkward on there! I thought they would be on FreeCen, 100% coverage of Devon in 1861, but nothing for 1871.
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Baptism at Higham, 16 October 1859
(born) 24 Sept 1859
Ellen Rebecca
Dr. of George + Ellen (born Wilson) Willson
abode Higham
father a Corporal of the Marines
Splendid stuff.
See it here if you want, image 31 of 99 (pdf)
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P185-01-21.pdf
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ok, thank you Jamjar and Jonw65.
Did George die in India ?
Ellen was in England in 1881 (in Higham Kent) widowed.
Later that year she married Roger Barnes.
Still a mysterie though. If Rhoda Sarah was an ill. child…., is her father's name known ?
DMM
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Thanks, Mckha, for the census details.
Did Rhoda marry? If so a father may be mentioned.
Is this her?:
Sep 1876 N. Aylesford 2a 675
WILSON Rhoda Sarah
MERRIX George James
1881 census with incorrect Rhoda’s name: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-9848
MERRIX, ALBERT EDWARD WILLSON
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in MILTON Volume 02A Page 824
A christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTGV-Q4N
MERRIX, GEORGE HENRY mmn WILLSON
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in MILTON Volume 02A Page 843
MERRIX, ERNEST WILLIAM mmn WILLSON
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in MILTON Volume 02A Page 851
Rhoda remarried on the 1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKGJ-BN2
Mar 1891 Milton 2a 1225
MERRIX Rhoda Sarah
ROSSITER Richard
Jamjar
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Without confirmation from her marriage certificates I would suggest that Rhoda Sarah was indeed the daughter of George - claimed as such on census (not as step-daughter or 'wifes child' as often shown).
Annette
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WILSON, RHODA SARAH - no mmn
GRO Reference: 1856 D Quarter in CLERKENWELL Volume 01B Page 480
Possible baptism? Does have a father on it!
21 Sep 1856, St Mary Islington
Born 4 Sepr 1856
Rhoda Sarah
Daur. of Thomas + Ellen Wilson
abode Wellington Street
father a Guard
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did George die in India
There is a burial Peshawar , Bengal for a G.A. WILSON. Gunner R.A. I can’t read the other bit, attached clip.
Cause of death Heart Apoplexy.
Is there another gunner G.A. Wilson in the RA?
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Did Rhoda marry? If so a father may be mentioned.
Is this her?:
Sep 1876 N. Aylesford 2a 675
WILSON Rhoda Sarah
MERRIX George James
Married at Higham, 12 August 1876
Rhoda Sarah Wilson, 21, Spinster, residence Higham, father George Wilson (deceased), Soldier
See it here (image 45 of 128)
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P185-01-22.pdf
If that is her baptism in Islington in 1856, Ellen did not claim the father was called George!
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Charlotte was born East Indies.
They are all with the parents 1871. Don’t know why it doesn’t show on familysearch
Might explain absence in 1861
In 1861 Ellen was with daughters Ellen and Rhoda living in Higham, Kent. Also there at that time was her brother David Wilson. No George.
DMM
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In 1861 Ellen was with daughters Ellen and Rhoda living in Higham, Kent. Also there at that time was her brother David Wilson. No George.
DMM, did you see the baptism of Ellen Rebecca that I gave you in Reply #22
Baptism at Higham, 16 October 1859
Ellen Rebecca
Dr. of George + Ellen (born Wilson) Willson
father a Corporal of the Marines
Yes, George was in the Royal Marines at that time.
See TNA website
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10725586
George Wilson
born: Berstead, Maidstone, Kent
Age at attestation: 19
Attested: Chatham
Joined in: 1847
Discharge reason: Relinquished claim to pension
Discharge year: 1861.
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did George die in India
There is a burial Peshawar , Bengal for a G.A. WILSON. Gunner R.A. I can’t read the other bit, attached clip.
Cause of death Heart Apoplexy.
Is there another gunner G.A. Wilson in the RA?
when did he die ??
DMM
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when did he die ??
19 August 1876
Too many things going on at once in this thread!
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In 1861 Ellen was with daughters Ellen and Rhoda living in Higham, Kent. Also there at that time was her brother David Wilson. No George.
DMM, did you see the baptism of Ellen Rebecca that I gave you in Reply #22
Baptism at Higham, 16 October 1859
Ellen Rebecca
Dr. of George + Ellen (born Wilson) Willson
father a Corporal of the Marines
Yes, George was in the Royal Marines at that time.
See TNA website
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10725586
George Wilson
born: Berstead, Maidstone, Kent
Age at attestation: 19
Attested: Chatham
Joined in: 1847
Discharge reason: Relinquished claim to pension
Discharge year: 1861.
Yes I did. thank you very much !
DMM
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Yes, George was in the Royal Marines at that time.
See TNA website
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10725586
George Wilson
born: Berstead, Maidstone, Kent
Age at attestation: 19
Attested: Chatham
Joined in: 1847
Discharge reason: Relinquished claim to pension
Discharge year: 1861.
Possible in 1861
piece 4437 folio 20 page 19
George Wilson, Private R.M. 33 Single, born Maidstone Kent
So not a corporal on that (if it is the right George!)
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So George leaves the Marines in 1861, and then joins the Royal Artillery?
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when did he die ??
19 August 1876, (George Willson)
Married at Higham, 12 August 1876 (Rhoda Sarah)
Rhoda Sarah Wilson, 21, Spinster, residence Higham, father George Wilson (deceased), Soldier
she married 12 August 1876, father George deceased.
George died a week later ? I'm confused. That's not possible. right ?
DMM
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So George leaves the Marines in 1861, and then joins the Royal Artillery?
I was wondering the same thing……
DMM
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thank you all for all the information so far !
I'm truly impressed !
DMM
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Hi
So it seems that George died between 1871 and 1876.
I haven't been able (or clever enough) to find any army (pension) records for him. He was getting on a bit by then, would he be able to qualify having spent so many years in the marines? Of course if he died whilst still serving that would also explain it.
Looking at the artillerymen around him in the 1871 census in Plymouth - in the worldwide army index for that year they seem to be in the 13th Brigade.
So in said index he perhaps may be the George Wilson, Gunner, regimental no. 2857, 13th Brigade, Royal Artillery, stationed at Plymouth.
John
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13th brigade death and disability returns at National Archives. Not downloadable, no dates indicated
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7245953
And
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7245388
Of course we know he was 23rd brigade in 1863
Transferred? Maybe from the 22nd?
07 March 1871 - Western Morning News - Plymouth, Devon, England