RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 09:00 GMT (UK)

Title: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 09:00 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

looking for the marriage of Ellen (Ellenor, Elleanor) Wilson (Writtle Essex 1832) and George Willson (Bearsted Kent).
I think they got married 1850-1853-ish.
I know their whereabouts census 1871. George died before census 1881.
Also know where Ellen was census 1861. But no George. He was a Gunner Royal Art. Where was he in 1851 ?

Any help grately appreciated.

Dutch MissMarple
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:06 GMT (UK)
Are you saying both surnames were Wilson?

Do you have names of their children?

I too see the 1871, but not the 1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5T3-W5N

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 09:12 GMT (UK)
yes both names wilson. But George's was Willson.

children: Rhoda Sarah (about 1856), Ellen Rebecca (about 1859), George Henry (about 1861) and Charlotte (about 1863).

As far as I know 4 children

DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:20 GMT (UK)
Born before marriage:

WILSON, RHODA  SARAH     - no mmn
GRO Reference: 1856  D Quarter in CLERKENWELL  Volume 01B  Page 480

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 09:21 GMT (UK)
This one in Kent?
Sep 1858 West Ashford 2a 777
Willson, George   
Wilson, Ellen
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:23 GMT (UK)
This one in Kent?
Sep 1858 West Ashford 2a 777
Willson, George   
Wilson, Ellen

It fits:

After marriage: WILLSON, ELLEN  REBECCA mmn WILSON
GRO Reference: 1859  D Quarter in NORTH AYLESFORD  Volume 02A  Page 308

WILLSON, GEORGE  HENRY mmn WILSON
GRO Reference: 1861  J Quarter in NORTH AYLESFORD  Volume 02A  Page 331

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Gadget on Friday 28 December 18 09:24 GMT (UK)
A marriage in 1858, Q3 West Ashford, Kent, as jon has said.

Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:28 GMT (UK)
Where are the children in 1871?

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:31 GMT (UK)
Is this Charlotte? I’m not seeing anything else for her:

WILSON, CHARLOTTE  ANN mmn WILSON
GRO Reference: 1863  M Quarter in SCULCOATES  Volume 09D  Page 141

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 09:39 GMT (UK)
Charlotte was born East Indies.

They are all with the parents 1871. Don’t know why it doesn’t show on familysearch


Might explain absence in 1861
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:41 GMT (UK)
Charlotte was born East Indies.

They are all with the parents 1871. Don’t know why it doesn’t show on familysearch

That’s interesting.  :)

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 09:41 GMT (UK)
census 1871 shows Rhoda Sarah is born in Islington not Clerkenwell…..

DMM

Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 09:43 GMT (UK)
Census 1871 shows that Charlotte was born Higham Kent

Adress at that time was Plymouth, St. Andrew in Devon.
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 09:50 GMT (UK)
Baptism is on FindMyPast
2 jan 1863
Parents George and Ellen

He is  corporal no 5 battery,  23rd. Brigade  R.A.

Added . At Bellary  Scotch Church, Bellary, Madras
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 09:52 GMT (UK)
Census 1871 shows that Charlotte was born Higham Kent

Adress at that time was Plymouth, St. Andrew in Devon.
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 09:55 GMT (UK)
census 1871 shows Rhoda Sarah is born in Islington not Clerkenwell…..

DMM

I’d consider GRO as being correct rather than a census. Does GRO show place of registration and the census where born. Doesn’t have to be the same thing here in Australia.

Don’t know what you a Mckha are looking at then for the 1871.

Maybe you could both list the census entries you are looking at.

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 09:57 GMT (UK)
Possibility?
Baptism of an Eleanor Wilson in Writtle, 3 June 1832
Parents Thomas + Rebecca
Father a Shoemaker
Image of BT here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLD-8VC?i=1922&cat=521329
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 09:59 GMT (UK)
census 1871 shows Rhoda Sarah is born in Islington not Clerkenwell…..

DMM

I’d consider GRO as being correct rather than a census. Does GRO show place of registration and the census where born. Doesn’t have to be the same thing here in Australia.

Don’t know what you a Mckha are looking at then for the 1871.

Maybe you could both list the census entries you are looking at.

Jamjar

Archive reference   RG10
Piece number   2124
Folio   6
Page   11

For George Ellen and first three children, Charlotte is on the next page as per my clip

Added.  Clerkenwell and Islington are right next to each other. 
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 10:03 GMT (UK)
I only have FamilySearch to look at. I meant it would be useful if you both typed up the details.

One of you is looking at the incorrect family.

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 10:07 GMT (UK)
Here is Charlotte on the 1881, with surname WILLSON. Born Madras:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK61-ZXM7

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 10:14 GMT (UK)
I only have FamilySearch to look at. I meant it would be useful if you both typed up the details.

One of you is looking at the incorrect family.

Jamjar
George Willson 42 Gunner Royal Arty. Kent Bearstead
Ellen  38 wife of do. Essex, Writtle
Rhoda Sarah dau 14, Middlesex Islington
Ellen Rebecca dau  11, Kent Higham
George Hy, son, 9 Kent, Higham

Next page
Charlotte 8  dau, East Indies
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 10:17 GMT (UK)
Charlotte 8  dau, East Indies

On FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5T3-W52

Census can be awkward on there! I thought they would be on FreeCen, 100% coverage of Devon in 1861, but nothing for 1871.
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 10:25 GMT (UK)
Baptism at Higham, 16 October 1859
(born) 24 Sept 1859
Ellen Rebecca
Dr. of George + Ellen (born Wilson) Willson
abode Higham
father a Corporal of the Marines

Splendid stuff.
See it here if you want, image 31 of 99 (pdf)
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P185-01-21.pdf
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 11:27 GMT (UK)
ok, thank you Jamjar and Jonw65.

Did George die in India ?
Ellen was in England in 1881 (in Higham Kent) widowed.
Later that year she married Roger Barnes.

Still a mysterie though. If Rhoda Sarah was an ill. child…., is her father's name known ?

DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 28 December 18 12:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Mckha, for the census details.

Did Rhoda marry? If so a father may be mentioned.

Is this her?:

Sep 1876 N. Aylesford 2a 675
WILSON Rhoda Sarah
MERRIX George James

1881 census with incorrect Rhoda’s name: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-9848

MERRIX, ALBERT  EDWARD WILLSON
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in MILTON  Volume 02A  Page 824

A christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTGV-Q4N

MERRIX, GEORGE  HENRY mmn WILLSON
GRO Reference: 1879  D Quarter in MILTON  Volume 02A  Page 843

MERRIX, ERNEST  WILLIAM mmn WILLSON
GRO Reference: 1881  J Quarter in MILTON  Volume 02A  Page 851

Rhoda remarried on the 1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKGJ-BN2

Mar 1891 Milton 2a 1225
MERRIX Rhoda Sarah
ROSSITER Richard

Jamjar
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 28 December 18 14:21 GMT (UK)
Without confirmation from her marriage certificates I would suggest that Rhoda Sarah was indeed the daughter of George - claimed as such on census (not as step-daughter or 'wifes child' as often shown).

Annette 
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 18:30 GMT (UK)
WILSON, RHODA  SARAH     - no mmn
GRO Reference: 1856  D Quarter in CLERKENWELL  Volume 01B  Page 480

Possible baptism? Does have a father on it!
21 Sep 1856, St Mary Islington
Born 4 Sepr 1856
Rhoda Sarah
Daur. of Thomas + Ellen Wilson
abode Wellington Street
father a Guard
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 18:49 GMT (UK)
Quote
did George die in India

There is a burial Peshawar , Bengal for a G.A. WILSON. Gunner R.A.  I can’t read the other bit, attached clip.
Cause of death Heart Apoplexy.

Is there another gunner  G.A. Wilson in the RA?
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 19:19 GMT (UK)
Did Rhoda marry? If so a father may be mentioned.

Is this her?:

Sep 1876 N. Aylesford 2a 675
WILSON Rhoda Sarah
MERRIX George James

Married at Higham, 12 August 1876
Rhoda Sarah Wilson, 21, Spinster, residence Higham, father George Wilson (deceased), Soldier

See it here (image 45 of 128)
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P185-01-22.pdf

If that is her baptism in Islington in 1856, Ellen did not claim the father was called George!
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 19:24 GMT (UK)
Charlotte was born East Indies.

They are all with the parents 1871. Don’t know why it doesn’t show on familysearch


Might explain absence in 1861


In 1861 Ellen was with daughters Ellen and Rhoda living in Higham, Kent. Also there at that time was her brother David Wilson. No George.

DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 19:35 GMT (UK)
In 1861 Ellen was with daughters Ellen and Rhoda living in Higham, Kent. Also there at that time was her brother David Wilson. No George.

DMM, did you see the baptism of Ellen Rebecca that I gave you in  Reply #22

Baptism at Higham, 16 October 1859
Ellen Rebecca
Dr. of George + Ellen (born Wilson) Willson
father a Corporal of the Marines

Yes, George was in the Royal Marines at that time.

See TNA website
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10725586

George Wilson
born: Berstead, Maidstone, Kent
Age at attestation: 19
Attested: Chatham
Joined in: 1847
Discharge reason: Relinquished claim to pension
Discharge year: 1861.
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 19:36 GMT (UK)
Quote
did George die in India

There is a burial Peshawar , Bengal for a G.A. WILSON. Gunner R.A.  I can’t read the other bit, attached clip.
Cause of death Heart Apoplexy.

Is there another gunner  G.A. Wilson in the RA?

when did he die ??



DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 19:38 GMT (UK)
when did he die ??

19 August 1876
Too many things going on at once in this thread!
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 19:40 GMT (UK)
In 1861 Ellen was with daughters Ellen and Rhoda living in Higham, Kent. Also there at that time was her brother David Wilson. No George.

DMM, did you see the baptism of Ellen Rebecca that I gave you in  Reply #22

Baptism at Higham, 16 October 1859
Ellen Rebecca
Dr. of George + Ellen (born Wilson) Willson
father a Corporal of the Marines

Yes, George was in the Royal Marines at that time.

See TNA website
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10725586

George Wilson
born: Berstead, Maidstone, Kent
Age at attestation: 19
Attested: Chatham
Joined in: 1847
Discharge reason: Relinquished claim to pension
Discharge year: 1861.

Yes I did. thank you very much !

DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 19:42 GMT (UK)
Yes, George was in the Royal Marines at that time.

See TNA website
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10725586

George Wilson
born: Berstead, Maidstone, Kent
Age at attestation: 19
Attested: Chatham
Joined in: 1847
Discharge reason: Relinquished claim to pension
Discharge year: 1861.

Possible in 1861
piece 4437 folio 20 page 19

George Wilson, Private R.M. 33 Single, born Maidstone Kent

So not a corporal on that (if it is the right George!)
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 19:43 GMT (UK)
So George leaves the Marines in 1861, and then joins the Royal Artillery?
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 19:53 GMT (UK)
when did he die ??

19 August 1876, (George Willson)



Married at Higham, 12 August 1876 (Rhoda Sarah)
Rhoda Sarah Wilson, 21, Spinster, residence Higham, father George Wilson (deceased), Soldier

she married 12 August 1876, father George deceased.
George died a week later ? I'm confused. That's not possible. right ?

DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 19:54 GMT (UK)
So George leaves the Marines in 1861, and then joins the Royal Artillery?

I was wondering the same thing……

DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: dutch missmarple on Friday 28 December 18 20:36 GMT (UK)
thank you all for all the information so far !
I'm truly impressed !


DMM
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: jonw65 on Friday 28 December 18 21:16 GMT (UK)
Hi
So it seems that George died between 1871 and 1876.
I haven't been able (or clever enough) to find any army (pension) records for him. He was getting on a bit by then, would he be able to qualify having spent so many years in the marines? Of course if he died whilst still serving that would also explain it.

Looking at the artillerymen around him in the 1871 census in Plymouth - in the worldwide army index for that year they seem to be in the 13th Brigade.
So in said index he perhaps may be the George Wilson, Gunner, regimental no. 2857, 13th Brigade, Royal Artillery, stationed at Plymouth.
John
Title: Re: looking for a marriage, county unknown
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 28 December 18 21:20 GMT (UK)
13th brigade death and disability returns at National Archives.  Not downloadable, no dates indicated


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7245953

And

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7245388

Of course we know he was 23rd brigade in 1863

Transferred?  Maybe from the 22nd?
07 March 1871 - Western Morning News - Plymouth, Devon, England