RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: jennyhawk on Friday 28 December 18 23:43 GMT (UK)

Title: I am trying to find out more about my grandad. James E Hawkins
Post by: jennyhawk on Friday 28 December 18 23:43 GMT (UK)
Hi

I am trying to find out more about my grandad. James E Hawkins
Birth
Mar 1921 in Mile End, London
Death
Nov 2004 in Sussex

I think had a sister had a brother Stanley hawkins and the motherís maiden name was Martin.  My grandad married my Nan Gladys Adamthwaite in 1952 but canít find out any more about him any info be great help
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 28 December 18 23:51 GMT (UK)
His birth certificate will give both of his parent's names - then you can try to locate them on the 1911 census, find their marriage etc. They should also show up on the 1939 register.

Births Mar 1921 
Hawkins    James E   
Martin   
Mile End   
1c   502
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 28 December 18 23:51 GMT (UK)
Doesn't a 2004 death give a birthday?
What did the E stand for?

Did you use any resource to locate him in the 1939 register (which we cannot do for you)?
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: jennyhawk on Friday 28 December 18 23:56 GMT (UK)
James Edward hawkins, I been looking on ancestry site but not coming up with much, I have to wait few months before I can send off for birth certificate as I just sent off for loads from my mum side of the family so was trying to see what could find out about him but not come up with much at all
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 29 December 18 00:00 GMT (UK)
This might be Stanley:
Births Dec 1922 
Hawkins    Stanley   
mmn Martin   
Poplar 1c   775

There are quite a few Hawkins births with mmn Martin - you would have to go through them to see if you can find any other siblings, unless you know that there was only Stanley?
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 00:02 GMT (UK)
He does show in the 1939.
Search using his exact dob. Which you can get from the death on Ancestry.

Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: jennyhawk on Saturday 29 December 18 00:33 GMT (UK)
I am sure Stanley and James had a sister  Winifred and may be one other brother just so hard as no one to ask now I wish I did when I was younger! 
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 00:39 GMT (UK)
There are two redacted (blacked out) entries on the 1939 so l think you are probably right, if one is Stanley, the other is likely to be a third child.
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 00:45 GMT (UK)
Itís interesting but the only marriage I can see that fits for Jamesí parents is an Edmonton reg in 1950!

 Have come across this before. In that case the couple got married in their 70s once the first spouses of both had died.
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 29 December 18 00:47 GMT (UK)
Jenny, you can search on freebmd using just surname and mmn to try to pick up the other children.
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 29 December 18 01:12 GMT (UK)
I see only one Winifred mmn MARTIN and there are others born in the district of ALVERSTOKE:

1914 Vera D
1916 Albert W
1920 Winifred M

Jamjar
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 01:36 GMT (UK)
Iíve found Winifred age 7 mths in 1911 b Tottenham

Just with father Thomas,  who says he has been married 8 years and has three living children.
There are some crossings out too.  Slip attached for deciphering

I think I am allowed to post this link?  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW4L-PL7

So, this might be Winifredís birth

 
HAWKINS, WINIFRED       MARTIN 
GRO Reference: 1910  D Quarter in EDMONTON  Volume 03A  Page 497

Iím thinking Thomas might have been Ďmarriedí twice?  That snip looks like a George and another son Hawkins age 4 right?  But the wife in the 1939 has dob of 1890 which means she would have only been 13 in 1903 or 15 in 1905.


Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 02:06 GMT (UK)
Or, that could be a lot of rubbish!

Found a 1908 attestation for this Thomas Hawkins.
His wife was Emma Martin. They were married registry office 2 August 1902 Edmonton
Witnesses John Hawkins & Kate Hawkins.

Children George, Thomas and Winifred, only her dob clear 7 10 1910 west Tottenham

One of the contact addresses is 15 Minster Road, matches 1911 census.
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 02:21 GMT (UK)
Found a clearer copy of the attestation. (How often does that happen?!)
Occupation is Plasters Labourer. Matches 1939

George b 25 12 1905
Thomas b 22 12 1907
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 02:32 GMT (UK)
This Winifred married Alfred C. CARTER in 1933
Is that a name that means anything to you?
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 02:41 GMT (UK)
Iím an idiot, should have paged through the 1911.
Also at 15 Minster Road is this MARTIN
family.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW4L-P2B

Iím going to stick my neck out and say Thomas married Emma in 1902 and then I think she must have died and her younger sister Florence took over,
Although no death to hand yet.

you are going to have to buy some certificates, sorry  :(


Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 29 December 18 03:19 GMT (UK)
Mckha, what is the basis for focusing on a Winifred born so much earlier than James and Samuel?

Jamjar

Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 03:39 GMT (UK)
From 1939 found assumed parents of James Edward = Thomas b 1882 and Florence b 1890. There is a widowed Sarah MARTIN with them.
Looking for a Winifred with same parents found the 1911 I have linked to.
Found birth that matched at GRO
found the attestation  with Wife Emma MARTIN and two other children.
(John and Kate Hawkins, witnesses for the marriage can be found in Tottenham 1911 he is a plasterer as well.  Annoyingly they ALSO have a son George b abt 1904)
Address on attestation is same as for a MARTIN family who have a dau Florence the right age. added. And mother is Sarah

Several problems
1 cannot find Emma, George or Thomas in 1911
2 cannot find a death for Emma that fits
3. Cannot find Emma with the Sidney Augustus Martin Family, so do not know how old she was, or if their daughter.  There is another Tottenham Martin family with dau Emma b 1884 parents George and Sophia but Ancestry going slow on me at the moment and image wonít load.

So alternative scenario is Emma is a cousin or similar relation to Florence

added
But as I said before, need certificates one by one. This is just a proposition that I think does satisfy many points. Could easily be wrong as we know. 
Especially as there are numerous Hawkins and Martin families in the Tottenham area and Edmonton registration district.
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 04:19 GMT (UK)
These are the only Thomas Hawkins anybody Martin marriages showing off Free BMD




Marriages Sep 1902   (>99%)
Hawkins    Thomas        Edmonton    3a   988    we know this to Emma MARTIN as per attestation

Marriages Mar 1910   (>99%)
HAWKINS    Thomas James        Narberth    11a   1719    

Marriages Dec 1915   (>99%)
Hawkins    Thomas A    Martin    Birmingham    6d   940    

Marriages Dec 1932   (>99%)
Hawkins    Thomas W J    Martin    Hastings    2b   75    

Marriages Jun 1950   (>99%)
Hawkins    Thomas    MARTIN    Edmonton    5e   839      spouse is Florence freebmd note says    #Comment Spouse could be either HAWKINS or MARTIN
Which is why I think this could be a very late marriage for them.
Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 29 December 18 05:10 GMT (UK)
As we can see, Florence was a single woman at the time she came into Thomas's family group, so from her side of things, there was no obstacle to marriage.

However, as Thomas was already married to Emma, we can assume she was living until around the time that Thomas and Florence wed.

The 1939 Electoral roll ;)

!0 Beaconsfield Rd.Tottenham,
HAWKINS,  Florence
HAWKINS, John
HAWKINS, Thomas
MARTIN, Sarah

Sue

Title: Re: Help needed
Post by: Mckha489 on Saturday 29 December 18 05:20 GMT (UK)
I think Thomas died in Dec qtr 1950, so perhaps the marriage was a final ďthingĒ

Added.. and now I canít find the wretched thing!

Here

Deaths Sep 1950   (>99%)
Hawkins    Thomas    69    Edmonton    5e   2

Added

Deaths Dec 1957   (>99%)
HAWKINS    Florence    63    Edmonton    5e   438   
Title: Re: I am trying to find out more about my grandad. James E Hawkins
Post by: Mckha489 on Tuesday 12 March 19 06:21 GMT (UK)
Hi, wondering if you bought any of those certificates?  And how it all planned out?