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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Mart 'n' Al on Sunday 30 December 18 17:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Mart 'n' Al on Sunday 30 December 18 17:50 GMT (UK)
I've got my test results on various sites, but with no accompanying tree.  I don't want my research stolen. Should I,
 
A. Stop worrying and provide it as completely as possible.
B. Just provide basic pedigree.
C. Not provide it?

Martin
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: UK4753 on Sunday 30 December 18 18:05 GMT (UK)
B.

Otherwise, why take the tests at all?

 :)
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: davidft on Sunday 30 December 18 18:14 GMT (UK)
Quote from: uk4753 on Sunday 30 December 18 18:05 GMT (UK)
B.

Otherwise, why take the tests at all?

 :)


I agree with this, but even then it can be hard work getting responses.

There again if no one put a tree up where would we be?
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 30 December 18 19:01 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mart 'n' Al on Sunday 30 December 18 17:50 GMT (UK)
I've got my test results on various sites, but with no accompanying tree.  I don't want my research stolen. Should I,
 
A. Stop worrying and provide it as completely as possible.
B. Just provide basic pedigree.
C. Not provide it?

Martin

I understand your concerns. I was in the same boat as you when I first did the DNA test. Once bitten etc - I'd had my tree well and truly hijacked by more than one person in the Genes Reunited days. At first I put a full tree on Ancestry but made it private, then I came to the same conclusion as the other replies. I compromised by including a public tree which contained the main 'players' in my tree but didn't include the 'peripherals'.

I'd like to say its made a difference, but I'd be lying! I could already make the private tree available for others to see if we'd already made contact and - quite honestly - most people are either lazy or just plain ignorant. I don't think I've ever been contacted by anyone on Ancestry DNA - its always been me doing the contacting, and then I'd guess that more than 50% of those don't bother to reply.

Perhaps I've just been unlucky but I think this is about par for the course for everyone.

So, my advice would be:- be prepared to be the instigator of any contact you want to make and don't bother too much about the tree - just put up a few names and locations.

I hope I'm not being too curmudgeonly (my favourite word of the moment) and pessimistic - I've had quite a lot of success finding relatives through DNA testing, including a couple of natural fathers but I have put the hours in!!  ::)

What's that old saying? You have to speculate in order to accumulate!
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Finley 1 on Sunday 30 December 18 19:28 GMT (UK)
I had contact ONCE  from my Nephew.. who I have known since the day he was born..


xin
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 30 December 18 19:43 GMT (UK)
I went for option B, because just about ever one here complains about matches not having a tree online
didn't make any difference, I still have to make the first contact and as I can't see their trees (the two or three that have one), it feels kinda pointless.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Raybistre on Sunday 30 December 18 19:47 GMT (UK)
Can't see the point of doing all that research into your ancestry and then hiding it away. Yes, I've done lots of work on mine and spent some money too, but I want that work to be recorded not to die with me. If somebody else benefits from the work I've done so what, maybe they will take it a stage farther.
Ray
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Bobby G on Tuesday 01 January 19 02:19 GMT (UK)
Yep, as others as said put up a basic gedcom.

I have my DNA/Gedcom and on all the DNA sites. What I do is add a basic Gedcom, which I updated (replace with a new one) every 6 months, 1 year or whenever i feel like it.

There is no reason not put one up. Living folks are removed/kept private and you are only using basic BMD info anyway.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: kinnigit on Tuesday 01 January 19 05:43 GMT (UK)
I'd go for A or B if you want to get the best from your DNA results. I find more people are initiating messages regarding matches these days.  There was an initial problem that Ancestry wouldn't notify you of a new message so that if you didn't notice the icon changing you wouldn't know you had a new message. This seems to be fixed now.
I personally don't bother contacting anyone with a private tree as they generally won't reply. Matches with no trees also are low priority.
I believe in sharing my research as knowledge grows when it is shared and verifiable facts can't be "stolen".
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 01 January 19 07:57 GMT (UK)
I didn’t have a tree for quite a while because I just enjoyed the experience of seeing the extent of DNA matches.
I then contacted one or two people with limited responses so I decided to share a tree with basic surnames across a couple of generations. This hasn’t produced anything either.
I contacted two new people last week who appeared on my list but it looks as though they were just online to post their results.
There are very few trees posted but of those that are, I can see where the likely relationship would occur.
I am still fascinated by it all though. According to Ancestry, there are more than 450 people in 4th cousin or closer. I do not intend to get in touch with all of them  :)
 In my closest contacts, I have an adoption so no idea how that person links and just last week a new one that I would like to know how we are related. The others, I can identify easily.
There is another adoption in 3rd cousin links - otherwise I can make a good guess at connections but would like to confirm.
Perhaps seeing the results of testing, might encourage more to research in the future. We can live in hope.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 01 January 19 08:24 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mart 'n' Al on Sunday 30 December 18 17:50 GMT (UK)
I've got my test results on various sites, but with no accompanying tree.  I don't want my research stolen. Should I,
 
A. Stop worrying and provide it as completely as possible.
B. Just provide basic pedigree.
C. Not provide it?

Martin

First it is impossible for your research to be stolen if you upload a copy online.
For it to be stolen it has to be taken from you (i.e. you no longer have it), and this is not what occur.

You must either mean you don't want it copied or you don't want to share it, either way don't put the tree online.
I must admit I cannot understand why people do not want to share their research especially these days when it does not cost anything to share. In the past when we shared we would have to copy the information by hand or even go to a shop and have the pages of research duplicated or photographs duplicated at a chemists etc., these all cost money yet researchers freely shared their research.

I am dismayed that so many researchers these days are so 'protective' about their research, if others in the past had been there would not be the resources available online today that are used by all.

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Mart 'n' Al on Tuesday 01 January 19 10:20 GMT (UK)
 Thank you all for your comments. I will be going ahead and adding my tree.

Martin
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Ayashi on Tuesday 01 January 19 11:22 GMT (UK)
My parents did DNA with my mother's results being connected to the existing main tree. There have been a couple of slightly creepy if possibly well meaning people who have added my line (not so bad) but also my photographs (fairly awkward) and even one person who circumvented the "private" area of my tree by looking up my cousins and adding info and photos from their trees (never talking to you again!!)

I would definitely say to anyone doing DNA to put up a skeleton tree at least though, especially if you want others to contact. I've done a lot more contacting than I've had people contact me but in a lot of cases the people I've matched with have had private trees, no trees or a handful of people on their trees. With hundreds of results, priority has to go to the ones with a decent amount of info for me to look through- unless there are shared matches that make someone of interest, there's not much point in spending much time trying to figure out someone who hasn't provided anything to look at. If I suspect or have any information to share with them that might help their research, however, I have often sent off a message regardless of whether or not I get a reply.

I now have something like 53 trees where I've found at least one point of shared ancestry, but this was work that I had to personally put in.

On a side note, if your tree is public, you don't have to link it to your results IT CAN STILL BE SEEN IN YOUR PROFILE. Ancestry has changed results to now show if someone has an unlinked tree so matches can still look that up. You'd need to keep the main one private and have a public second tree that's viewable.

Ayashi
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: familydar on Tuesday 01 January 19 12:27 GMT (UK)
Ayashi, the problem with not linking a tree to your results is that people looking at the unlinked tree could struggle to work out which of the people in it could be their DNA match.  Compounded when there are multiple unlinked trees to choose from.

I have a linked public bare bones pedigree only tree going back as many generations as I'm confident about (some people only know as far back as their GPs, if that's all I had online we wouldn't stand much chance of a surname in common with a 2nd cousin, let alone someone more distant) and a much more extensive (rambling) private tree.  I find this approach works for me.

Happy New Year everyone  :)

Jane :-)
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 01 January 19 15:49 GMT (UK)
I also have the same as Jane.  A simple direct line tree online, linked to my DNA results, and 8 separate trees off line  (great grandparents lines) that include all relatives on those lines. If I had a single tree, it would get very confusing, especially in those lines that are extremely fecund.


Gadget
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Finley 1 on Tuesday 01 January 19 22:16 GMT (UK)
Yes ... I did that after advice xxx on here.. one simple basic direct line attached to DNA and 400 other trees that are private.. ish  as much as private is allowed.. 
think it wont be long b4 all are public  or at least on a new t.v. show... for Ancestry.   

anyone proove their related they can view .. but not for tree grabbers to add my family as an off shoot of their 12,00000 already confusing  branches.

 :D :D :D :D :D :D ::) ::)


xin
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: sugarfizzle on Wednesday 02 January 19 07:37 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mart 'n' Al on Tuesday 01 January 19 10:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your comments. I will be going ahead and adding my tree.

Martin

I'm glad you have come to that decision, Martin. It is unlikely to help you as such, but may help others to confirm matches.

When I see a close match with no tree, very small tree, or a private tree, I know there is little chance of me finding a positive match. When someone has a large, public, well documented tree I am much more likely to connect, though not always.

Regards Margaret
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: DavidG02 on Wednesday 02 January 19 07:48 GMT (UK)
I have a direct line tree. ie parents of parents etc. No offshoots, no twigs

I look at more matches that have trees than dont. Even something as simple as location helps me decide if the tree is relevant to my search

Sometimes a tree may NOT give a name to chase but it may give a location and date that I can surmise a possible solution- not that I then accept that - but at least I can put it into the context of my DNA list.

ie my mothers matches have a lot of Irish connections yet the paper trail says there shouldnt be any. It could be many reasons ie blanket baby or even my own inadvertant handling of her sample.

But I appreciate everytime I see a tree because it helps
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: diplodicus on Wednesday 02 January 19 12:54 GMT (UK)
My whole tree is online and I am happy to let people make of it what they will. I always ask before copying any images and so far, nobody has said "no". I did once create a "bare bones" tree of direct ancestors but given the limits of autosomal testing, this is likely to exclude many opportunities. If another researcher reaches back to a distant sibling of whom you were unaware of one of your own, then no connection will offer itself.

Like most of you, I have invested quite a lot in the GRO and other sources but then again, I have benefitted far more from others who have done the same thing and then shared their results.

Yes, there are some "data hoovers" out there but they must be way too busy copying to do anything useful with the material they collect. Their trees are rarely of any research interest but if it keeps them happy...

Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: jillruss on Wednesday 02 January 19 13:19 GMT (UK)
I don't think that's quite the point.

Like most other people, I don't like tree-snatchers, partly because of all the work I've put into mine for 'joy riders' to come along and half-inch the lot without a please or thank you.

And I agree with Guy (who's obviously much more altruistic than me!) that, once you put your tree 'out there' you've given it up to all and sundry.

What I don't care for is the mindless way people adopt parts of my tree without questioning. In my very early days of research, I gave some theoretical info on a particular stubborn brickwall to someone but emphasised that it was just my theory which I was looking into. Some time later, I accessed those particular parish registers and found a childhood death for the chap in my theory so had to start looking elsewhere.  The point being that I still find my original theory in lots of trees, the owners obviously having annexed this poor lad who died in infancy and his earlier family - probably for all eternity!!

Not only is it dishonest, its totally counter productive. A serious researcher would not accept info withour looking into it him/herself. I just wonder how many 'serious' researchers there are out there, and how many are just playing at it?

Hence my reluctance, like Martin, to post my tree on Ancestry. However, I gave in and posted my tree for DNA purposes - and I still say it hasn't made a ha'pence of difference to the number of matches making first contact (god, I sound like ET!!). 'Scuse me whilst I just phone home!!  :D

Jill
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: diplodicus on Wednesday 02 January 19 13:26 GMT (UK)
I assume that these "serious researchers" have already leaned not to trust anybody else's tree without careful verification?

Fortunately, I have never been considered as "serious" :P
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 02 January 19 14:16 GMT (UK)
I don't have any matches with a tree linked to their DNA so I don't know if I would be able to see a linked tree.

I can't see any of the trees they do have because I don't have a subscription, so I'm never bothered if a match has a tree or not, I work from messaging alone.

Granted if I was trying to get as far back as many of you are I might feel differently.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 02 January 19 15:40 GMT (UK)
One of my DNA matches today commented: "You've certainly done more research than your tree would suggest." I'm not entirely sure how to take that lol
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: smudwhisk on Wednesday 02 January 19 19:27 GMT (UK)
If you have a private tree on Ancestry, what information is passed to matches please?  Just the surname? Name? Any location details from the facts associated with individuals?  Just wondering as I've created a minimal direct ancestors tree which is private in preparation for when the results arrive.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: diplodicus on Wednesday 02 January 19 19:43 GMT (UK)
No data from the tree is displayed.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: sugarfizzle on Wednesday 02 January 19 19:47 GMT (UK)
smudwhisk, No direct information is given to matches at all if your tree remains private.

However, 'shared ancestor' hints are available but you don't know who the shared ancestor is!

Surnames and places of birth are searchable for both public and private trees.

Regards Margaret
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 02 January 19 19:48 GMT (UK)
As far as I can remember those with private trees come up when I put in a surname or location search, but that's all.


Gadget
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: smudwhisk on Wednesday 02 January 19 20:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks diplodicus, Margaret and Gadget.  I didn't expect much to be shown but wondered if a list of surnames was perhaps provided.  I may have to consider whether to make it public or not. :-\  There are no sources on it so shouldn't get indexed by Ancestry.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: DavidG02 on Wednesday 02 January 19 23:27 GMT (UK)
FTDNA site allows for a tree and surname interests to be added to their DNA site

Gedmatch of course allows for gedcoms to be added or trees

MyHeritage also have the option of adding trees and surname interests
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: smudwhisk on Wednesday 02 January 19 23:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks David, having tested only with Ancestry was wondering whether surnames were provided for matches even for private trees.  May have to wait and see what I get shown when the results are in and decide whether to make the tree public or not.  Not planning on the others although may consider gedmatch possibly.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: DavidG02 on Wednesday 02 January 19 23:40 GMT (UK)
Quote from: smudwhisk on Wednesday 02 January 19 23:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks David, having tested only with Ancestry was wondering whether surnames were provided for matches even for private trees.  Not planning on the others although may consider gedmatch possibly.
FTDNA you can just add surname interests alone. Or you can add trees that are private

Gedmatch dont have a surname interest feature but do have a DNA+Gedcom matching feature ie if a person you match with has a Gedcom AND matches you you can visit it. But be warned some have minimal information or a full tree. It is pot luck ( as other sites are)

Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: sugarfizzle on Thursday 03 January 19 06:36 GMT (UK)
Quote from: smudwhisk on Wednesday 02 January 19 23:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks David, having tested only with Ancestry was wondering whether surnames were provided for matches even for private trees.  May have to wait and see what I get shown when the results are in and decide whether to make the tree public or not.  Not planning on the others although may consider gedmatch possibly.

If you are possibly going to use Gedmatch, you may as well use ftDNA and myheritageDNA as well. Fish in as many ponds as possible.

Regards Margaret
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 03 January 19 08:09 GMT (UK)
Also make sure you go to Gedmatch Genesis (beta). You can get to it via the ordinary Gedmatch or just transfer to it automatically. It's accepting a wider range of tests.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: smudwhisk on Thursday 03 January 19 20:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks Margaret and Gadget, I'll think about it when the results get back.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: BristolClark on Thursday 24 January 19 20:21 GMT (UK)
I'd go with 'A' but often feel as if the answer should be 'B.'

I hardly ever get any returns on my messages. Those that do often have full trees, or close enough, and we're usually able to figure out our connection, if not clear at first glance.

I've come to the conclusion that most take DNA tests without wanting to bother about connecting. I'm just very glad I finally managed to find out my paternal surname that had eluded me for so long.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: Mart 'n' Al on Thursday 24 January 19 20:51 GMT (UK)
That must be so rewarding and meaningful.  Could you expand on " I finally managed to find out my paternal surname that had eluded me for so long. "

Martin
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: BristolClark on Thursday 24 January 19 21:43 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mart 'n' Al on Thursday 24 January 19 20:51 GMT (UK)
That must be so rewarding and meaningful.  Could you expand on " I finally managed to find out my paternal surname that had eluded me for so long. "

Martin

Sure. It'll be nice to tell someone else. I think my wife and children are close to tears with boredom. :D

My 2xgreat-Grandad was born in the workhouse and was baptised with his mothers surname. It had taken me a while to discover that out as a fresh faced family historian, so discovering that the journey would end on that note left me quite empty. It was then that I took 23andme and FTDNA tests and uploaded results up to Gedmatch and the sort, but no real breakthroughs. A couple of confirmations on other branches, but the paternal line didn't appear.

It was only the beginning of November that I decided to treat myself and do an Ancestry test. I got the results on New Years Eve and knew my long lost surname the next day. The test has completely flipped over what I knew about my paternal line.

My 4xgreat-Grandfather died in his late 40s and my 4xgreat-Grandmother undertook a journey from workhouse to prison to an eventual re-marriage. It was whilst living with that new husband with her young children from the previous marriage that my 3xgreat-Grandmother got pregnant aged 16 and eventually ended up in the workhouse giving birth. Through the testing on Ancestry, I got a few DNA hits from the descendants of the husband that my 4xgreat-Grandmother had married.

I can only speculate that one of my now 5xgreat-Grandfathers sons had had his way and got her pregnant at 16. It would account for the stint in the workhouse at least. I'll never know who the actual father is. I have my suspicions it is a William seeing as thats the name used on the marriage certificate between my 2xgreat-Grandparents, but it's just a suspicion.

So, I'm not a Clark. I'm a Skuse. I've a whole new branch to research and now have to completely re-do the research on the Clark line. It looks like it came from Ireland.

All that was discovered by my matches having full trees up on Ancestry. Thank God they did as that little re-marriage detail may not have come up in discussion. That's why I err on the side of 'A' on the thread.
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: DavidG02 on Saturday 26 January 19 10:33 GMT (UK)
Sometimes , just sometimes , a lucky break is all you need

Person had a tree. But only 5 names. None that gave me a clue. DNA matches hinted at the family I needed to check but nothing concrete

Checked on tree creator and saw they named a country town for birth. Opposite side of the state to the names on the Matches. Ok

I then used our free newspaper archive Trove searching the name for that country town , fortunately a paper was printed in the town.

Lots of social notes and really a lot of nothing until not a name but a small country town in the location very very close to the Matches

Checked SA BDM and saw the connecting marriage and found my link.

All from having a tree
Title: Re: Dis- and advantages of adding a tree to DNA results
Post by: bufkin on Friday 08 February 19 22:30 GMT (UK)
I vote for A, and I'll give you an example of why. Like many others, I've hit brick walls in my research a few times, and surname searches within my dna relatives have been very helpful. Most recently, I got stuck on my 5th great grandfather. I did a surname search within my dna relatives, and one particular lineage of that name appeared in several trees. I was able to use that information to work backwards, and eventually made a connection to my 5th great grandfather. I was able to add 4 more generations to my tree. Also, I'll say that I've had pretty good luck when it comes to contacting people with trees. More often than not, I'm able to help their progress as much as they help mine. I say give and you shall receive! :-)