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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: lucygrasshopper on Monday 31 December 18 08:51 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I have researched my Wiss family, and all that I need to know, I already have to hand.
Was recently contacted by a Wiss family name living in Tasmania, Australia.
She is looking for the birth of William Robert Charles Wiss. He may have been born in England or Germany. I found the English Marriage of William Robert Charles Wiss and Marianne Ainger in Dec. 1860. Marylebone vol 1a page 633.
I can't seem to find anything further back on either of these people. Forward...I know that Marianne died in Australia in 1906. She had three sons...who were all born in Germany. Alfred, Lionel and Campbell (or Mervyn Campbell). She and her sons came to Australia.
As for William Robert Charles...could anyone tell me who his parents were.
If he perhaps died in England sometime before the sons moved to Australia. e.g. before 1906
His father I believe, was a linguist and Professor and lived in Germany, but was married to an English Girl. He too may have been born in Germany, but surely there was an original Wiss Grandfather in the UK somewhere. There is a thought that the Grandfather's name may have been James Wiss.
I had no luck with the early census dates up to 1861... I will keep looking, Departures/arrivals by ship for either Australia for Marianne and her three sons, or for her and her husband going to and from Germany.
Anyone out there with some idea?
Thanks,
Lucygrasshopper.
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I know that Marianne died in Australia in 1906.
I cannot see any evidence of her death. Campbell's daughter Marianne Ainger WISS died in 1906 aged 15 months, perhaps you are confusing the two?
Lionel and Campbell married in Queensland.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=marriages
Debra :D
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I found the English Marriage of William Robert Charles Wiss and Marianne Ainger in Dec. 1860. Marylebone vol 1a page 633.
The marriage shows that William was a Lector at the University of Heidelberg and I think the added MA and Dr. of Philosophy would probably refer to him, not his wife. His father is named as James who was also an MA and Dr. of Philosophy. Her father is Alfred, an Architect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lector
Debra :D
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Possibly relevant?
St James’ Gazette, 21 August 1884
[Marriages]
NEATE-WISS
At Stuttgart, Wurtemburg, Mr Percy J Neate, of Rochester, Kent, son of Mr John Neate, of Belsize Park, Hampstead, to Mabel, daughter of Dr William Wiss, of Stuttgart, Aug 19.
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Alfred and family in 1851:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGND-RZ6
Debra :D
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Search National Archives of Australia website...finds Campbell WISS registered alien WW1 b. Heidelberg with explanation for his German accent and information about his, and parents, origins
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Possibly relevant?
St James’ Gazette, 21 August 1884
[Marriages]
NEATE-WISS
At Stuttgart, Wurtemburg, Mr Percy J Neate, of Rochester, Kent, son of Mr John Neate, of Belsize Park, Hampstead, to Mabel, daughter of Dr William Wiss, of Stuttgart, Aug 19.
1891 census for this couple:
Newton Terrace, New Rd, Rochester, Kent: RG12/657/120/25
Percy J Neate Head Mar 32 Consulting & manufacturing engineers London St John’s Wood
Mabel Neate Wife Mar 29 Germany British Subject <<<
Phyllis Neate Adopted daughter 9mo London Hammersmith
[+ 3 servants]
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Arrival QLD. No mama:
Chyebassa 1885-06-03
WISS Alfred 20
WISSE Campbell 21
WISSE Lionel 19
Did they have a relative here?: WISSE Siegfried 24 Eugenie 1873-10-30
Deaths:
1932 C503 Lionel Ainger Wiss parents William Robert Charles and Marianne Ainger
1957 B18787 Maria Elsie Wiss parent’s Nils Hans Wiuff and Maria Elizabeth Lindberg
Marriages:
?1883 C632 Alfred Wise to Ellen Kirkham
1890 C1095 Lionel Ainger Wiss to Maria Elise Wiuff
1902 C840 Campbell Wiss to Alice Maud Dau
Jamjar
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Record of Aliens Campbell WISS, Lindisfarne...
...This man stated that his grandfather was Scottish, married to an English woman, and lives in Germany where Wiss's father was born.
....The latter married an Englishwoman who was a fluent German linguist, returned to Germany, and sometime later Campbell WISS was born.
.....He states that he was brought up to speak the German language solely, which accounts for his foreign accent.
.....Has a brother in Queensland
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From Family Search.
Birth. 24 Sep 1861. Heidelberg. Mabel. Parents William Robert Charles and Marianne Ainger Wiss. Baptised Karlsruhe.
Looks as if they left for Germany soon after their marriage and missed 1861 census.
Burial. 23 Sep 1885. Lambeth, Surrey. Marianne Wiss. Age 50. (b c 1835)
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This is most likely the marriage of their grandparents - they named a son Henry Campbell WISS.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP3V-CMRG
Debra :D
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Probably William's baptism:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8WW-N7Q
Wilhelm Robert Carl WIHS
Gender Male
Christening Date 21 Dec 1826
Christening Place STADTPFARREI EVANGELISCH,DARMSTADT,STARKENBURG,HESSE-DARMSTADT
Father's Name James WIHS
Mother's Name Mariane VOYS
Maternal Grandfather's Name Wilhelm VOYS
Debra :D
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Burial. 23 Sep 1885. Lambeth, Surrey. Marianne Wiss. Age 50. (b c 1835)
St James’ Gazette, 24 September 1885
[Deaths]
WISS, Marianne, wife of Dr., of Stuttgart, at St John’s, The Avenue, Upper Norwood, Sept 19.
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So from the baptisms we see that William and Marianne had:
Mabel Wiss, born 24 September 1861
Campbell Wiss, born 13 September 1863
Lionel Ainger Wiss, born 5 May 1865
Was Alfred theirs? The timing is tight for another son between Campbell and Lionel.
Anyway, Mabel married in England in 1884 and her brothers emigrated to Australia in early 1885. Their mother Marianne died in south London later that year.
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Deaths NSW:
26959/1945 WISS Campbell parents ROBERT and MARIANE NORTH SYDNEY
Death notice, 2nd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17961038
A daughter: 27360/1950 WISS Evelyn Ada Ainger parents CAMPBELL and ALICE CHATSWOOD
Death notice, 4th column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18175096
Another daughter’s marriage: 906/1931 COWLING Gordon A to WISS Eileen A CHATSWOOD
And the other married VIC: 1940 14372 PEATE Phillip Geoffrey to WISS Doreen Mabel
Death notice for Doreen: PEATE Doreen Death notice 10-2-2003 Death 87 at Perth, late of Melbourne The Age (Melbourne) 13-2-2003
Doreen Mabel PEATE
Karrakatta Cremation
Aged 87
Date of Death:10-2-2003
Suburb:CITY BEACH
Ashes Request
TAKEN BY ADMINISTRATOR AT KARRAKATTA CEMETERY
Death notice for Phillip Geoffrey, type 8 in little white box, or scroll to page 14: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=MDQ-9Oe3GGUC&dat=19730108&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Appears his wife died in Tasmania, first column:
Death notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17283323
Cremation notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article30123522
Jamjar
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Queensland Times 12 Jan 1932 p8
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113216401?
....obit for Lionel A WISS.......brother Alfred returned to England.....Mr. Campbell WISS (Tasmania) is a brother, and Mrs. P. J. NEATE (London) is a sister. Canon AINGER, of the Anglican Temple (London) is an uncle.
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Hello to all of you - Oh - My - what a wonderful lot of responses:
I can only see one reply button - so here goes.
Every reply has been duly noted:
A few comments: Yes - I got it wrong, obviously about Marianne's death 1906 - So...that answered that.
Thank you for the Details of William Robert Charles Wiss' Birth details in German - that is wonderful.
Thank you for the University information -
Alfred? Family insists there was an Alfred -but no mention from them of a Mabel as a sister - so that will be interesting.
So.... Mabel was married - good detail.
About the WWI report on Campbell Wiss. Indeed I found yet another for WW II when he was 77 years old - He was reared in Germany and indeed, had a German accent. He was subjected to harassment via reports from "observant" people.
I found a document whereby he came down heavily on the people who censored his mail etc., He indeed was a British subject.
After that, they left him alone.
Will follow up on possible marriage of Grandparents.
I trust my one coverage of all your replies is OK - all of you - Thank you so much. You have added a wealth of information.
Lucygrasshopper
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I’ve added to post #14
Jamjar
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The following all baptised 16 May 1842 at St Andrew, Holborn :
1 - Marianne Ainger born 13 Jan 1835
2 - Adeline Ainger 20 Feb 1830
3 - Alfred Ainger 9 Feb 1837
4 - Francis Ainger 29 Jan 1842
Father of the above is Alfred Ainger , architect , of 7 John Street;
Mother of 1, 2, and 3 is Mary Ann , mother of 4 is Isabella
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Hello again.
I have searched all the URL's that have been posted by the good members who have replied to me.
I noticed a few anomalies - the spelling of Wiss - it is recorded sometimes as Wise - Wisse - I did find the shipping list for the three brothers.
The Wise Kirkman marriage... Having a bit of trouble with that one.
The Ainger Census details - spot on.
Thank you so much for all your assistance - so many people to thank...but you all know that what you have done for me is greatly appreciated.
Happy New Year one and all
Lucygrasshopper