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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Wednesday 02 January 19 00:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
A bit of a needle in a haystack time...
In our family we know very little about the man called Jacques FERMO, apparently a Belgian, who married the younger sister of my great-grandma. His bride in London on that day in 1902 (have just sent away for the marriage cert, so no details yet) was an Agnes Florence KERSHAW. They were not married long, and Florence did not long survive her wedding day, as far as we know.
Now, Jacques FERMO does not appear to be a commonly occurring name, and I have just this moment come across a 1942 burial record for an individual of that name in the Shoah Memorial Cemetery in Paris. I was wondering whether this is some kind of war cemetery, with perhaps the burial date significant.
I could be barking up entirely the wrong tree, but I simply wanted to colour in a few more details in Agnes Florence's life over 100 years ago.
Apparently she was quite an academic young woman, doing very well in her studies at Royal Holloway College, London.
Many thanks for any info...
Keith
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Hi,
Sorry to be the bearer of sad news but the Mémorial de la Shoah is the holocaust museum in Paris,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9morial_de_la_Shoah
There is some info. about the Jacques FERMO d.1942 here, but it is in French,
http://bdi.memorialdelashoah.org/internet/jsp/core/MmsGlobalSearch.jsp
The best I can do is from the first page,
Mr Jacques FERMO born 08.08.1876 at Bucarest deported on convoy no.37 the 25.09.1942 to Auschwitz.
If I'm right about his address in the image it is 45, Rue Pigalle, this would have been in Drancy Internment Camp.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drancy_internment_camp#Prisoners
Unfortunately it doesn't help to know whether it is the Jacques FERMO you are looking for. This one seems to have been born in Bucharest, Romania but of course he could have been living in Belguim before his marriage in 1902.
Regards,
Daisy
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Morning, Daisy,
And thanks so much for all that sobering information. As you say, it may well be that I have got the wrong individual there, perhaps I shall know more about the Jacques FERMO who married into my family in 1902 once that marriage certificate plops through my letter box in about a week's time.
Many thanks again,
Keith
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...and I was wondering whether someone can point me to a good guide to how things were organised in the very early days of women being able to study for BA degrees in the United Kingdom.
Have come across an 1882 announcement under the heading of The University of London, where Agnes Florence KERSHAW gains a first class honours BA degree in Classics. Royal Holloway College is given alongside her name, but she is "bracketed" with two other women who achieve the same grade degree, one of whom has Cheltenham Ladies College against her name. Rather confused by it all..
Keith
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I believe Cheltenham Ladies College is, and always has been, a school, as opposed to an establishment for further education.... if that helps?
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1882? Royal Holloway College was opened in 1886.
https://www.senatehouselibrary.ac.uk/our-collections/special-collections/archives-manuscripts/university-of-london-students-1836-1934
http://archives.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/resources/general_register_part_3.pdf
Kershaw, Agnes Florence.-Matr. Jan. 1888, Notting Hill High Sch. and R. Holloway
Coll., 21st in Hons, Obt. marks qual. for a Prize ; Intermed. Arts 1889, it.
Holloway Coll., 2nd in 1st Class in Germ. ; B.A. 1891, R. Holloway Coll., 1st in
1st Class in Cl.; Teacher's Diploma 1892, Camb. Trg Coll. 12 Charterhouse
Square, E.C
That is, she matriculated in 1888 and received a BA in 1891, then teaching qualifications in 1892.
She was at Notting Hill High School before matriculation, then at Royal Holloway for the BA, and then at Camb. Trg Coll = Cambridge Training College for Women Teachers.
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Sorry, sorry, should have put a much later date, not 1882!
And many thanks for the continued delving, Jorose and Mowsehowse...
Keith
We've been curiously offline for the last hour or so, or I would have responded earlier...
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Hi again, Everyone,
Have just this moment received that 1902 marriage certificate through the post. On 14th June Jacques FERMO aged 25 married Agnes Florence KERSHAW aged 33 at the London City Register Office.
Thus, poor Jacques perfectly fits the description/details/d.o.b from that holocaust memorial record.
I have never heard anything of this within the family - quite a sobering shock, in fact.
Family folklore (speaking the other day to my 93 year old mother) describes the shadowy nature of the family knowledge of this man FERME (sic) as much older than his bride, and supposedly a Belgian. I wonder why this was so wide of the mark.
Maybe they simply went to live in Belgium. When and where exactly Agnes Florence died or is buried is not known either, only that she didn't long survive after 1902. Must try and find out.
And can I ask where I might enquire and ask for more details about the Drancy Internment Camp and so on.
Do not believe they had any children, or know what happened to Jacques FERMO between the death of Florence and 1942.
So much to ponder...
Keith
N.B. Jacques FERMO's occupation in 1902 given as Mining Engineer Student; father's name was Abraham FERMO, Commission Agent, money matters I suppose. ..
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I just made a quick search on Yad Vashem....
Jacque Fermo B.1876,
Place of residence: Bucharest, Romania.
Source: List of deportation from France
Fate: murdered :'(
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Thanks very much for that, Mowsehouse..
I'm completely new to this area of family research, can you tell me what Yad Vashem is exactly?
And now it's pretty certain that we have identified the individual I was seeking, Daisypetal, I've now gone back and had a proper, thorough read of those links you so kindly put on this thread earlier, especially about that Jewish internment camp at Drancy. Very sobering stuff indeed.
Jacques seems to have been a Rumanian Jew, and the various forced migrations of his people is extremely interesting too. I think also that the references on Ancestry to passenger lists to the U.S. probably reference him as well, but I don't pay enough in my subscription to view the original images, apparently!
Keith
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It is a database recording the names of victims of the holocaust, so they will be remembered for generations to come.
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Thanks very much for that, Mowsehowse,
And there's yet another puzzling little piece that I've discovered in this family story of mistruths.
Jacques F gives his residence at the time of his marriage on 14th June 1902 as the Champion Hotel in Aldersgate. I've just learned by googling that this hotel was demolished in 1901, though one of its mirrors was recently discovered in a Coventry hotel and auctioned off in 2017. I suppose you can't always believe what you read on the internet, though.
I'm wondering also how I'll ever track down a death or burial entry for Agnes Florence FERMO somewhere in the world, not in the U.K, but possibly Europe, a little while after 1902...
Keith
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Keith,
In Welsh Newspapers Online there is an advertisement, from the Cymro a'r Celt Llundain newspaper issue of 26th March 1910, for a Grand Smoking Concert to be held on 7th April at the Champion Hotel in Aldersgate.
However, from the same paper on 2nd April, there is a "Notes & News" item which reports that "The Champion Hotel, at Aldersgate Street, having closed its doors, the smoking concert........has had to be transferred to the Horseshoe Hotel"
Willyam
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Very well spotted, Willyam!
I'm surprised that people hadn't noticed that the Champion had closed or even been demolished. We have a pub here in Cambridge called The Champion Of The Thames, which is always referred to as The Champ. I bet the place in Aldersgate Street was referred to as such by the locals, who presumably transferred themselves to a hostel nearby, perhaps The Horseshoe Hotel.
Many thanks for that,
Keith
And I wonder what exactly a Grand Smoking Concert was - wreaths of choking cigarette and cigar smoke no doubt, and some kind of performance(s), just distinguishable, going on...
How times have changed, the other day I walked to a Norwich City football game. I remember last attending fifty years ago, with the then all pervading smell of cigarette smoke hanging heavily over and around the crowd. Not any more.
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I'm wondering also how I'll ever track down a death or burial entry for Agnes Florence FERMO somewhere in the world, not in the U.K, but possibly Europe, a little while after 1902...
Keith
You might start with "Find a Grave", and "Familysearch".... fingers crossed.
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Keith,
My reading of the newspaper items was that the Champion Hotel had only just closed between the 26th of March and the 2nd of April in 1910.
Willyam
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Willyam,
So maybe it was still open as a hotel for paying guests in 1902, and the reports of it closing and being demolished in 1901 were much exaggerated, or just plain inaccurate...
Keith
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I'd say that 1901 is a typo for 1910 - what used to be called a 'clerical error'. Years ago I worked alongside someone who switched numbers all the time and couldn't understand why his totals were wrong ::)
Carol
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Well that's a good suggestion, Carol! And may very well be true.
I suppose that it could be that in the the 1901 Census it was recorded as plying as a hotel, but by the 1911 it no longer was, and so the "no longer after 1901" became used. Or just as likely, as you say, an error of a two digit inversion.
Keith
Would need to visit the local studies/record centre to clear this one up, but not sure which one would cover Aldersgate Street
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The British newspapers on FindMyPast have numerous mentions of the Champion between 1867 and February 1910, but nothing after that. The Welsh newspaper story found by willyam suggests that the closure was unexpected, otherwise they wouldn't have taken bookings for April 1910.
It was certainly a lively establishment - Bohemian concerts and all sorts 8)
Carol
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That settles that then, Carol. Well done with the extra research!
Now to try and track down the fate of Jacques Fermo's bride on that June day in 1902...
Keith
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Keith,
Hopefully the following will provide the clarity that is needed in respect of the demise of the Champion Hotel.
From the Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer issue of 29th March 1910:
"A FALL IN VALUE FROM £40,000 TO £500 - In a review of the property market the "Daily Telegraph" observes that the westward move which brought the Albion Tavern in Aldersgate Street to the closing stage of an honourable existence doubtless affects the Champion Hotel, in the same thoroughfare, withdrawn [from auction] by Messrs. Orgill, Marks and Barley at the upset price of £500. The property is held at a ground rent of £1,142 per annum, but, nevertheless, there was a time, not so very long ago, when the Champion Hotel sold for upwards of £40,000."
Willyam
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Keith,
Are you able to tell us the address that was recorded for Agnes on the wedding certificate?
As she does not seem to appear in the (England & Wales) 1901 census, might that address also be a non-permanent one? Possibly another hotel - perhaps the Brunswick?
My thinking is that perhaps, following her father's death in 1898, as a woman then of independent means she might have travelled abroad - where she may have met Jacques and they then returned to London to marry.
Willyam
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Right, Willyam,
Address given for her on the marriage certificate was 14, Dukes Avenue, Muswell Hill.
Not sure if she was there in the 1901 Census, and she seems devilishly difficult to track down in the 1871, 1881 and 1891 Censuses too...
Keith
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Keith,
Thanks for this.
In the 1891 census there is recorded in the household of Augusta C Rushworth in Bridlington, a Visitor by the name of Agnes F Kershaw (aged 22). Her occupation is given as Student of Holloway College and her place of birth as London, City.
Additionally, as you may already be aware, in the 1871 census her sister Alice is in the same Rushworth household (this time in Leeds) - where she is described as a Niece.
Willyam
Willyam
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Morning, Willyam,
Yes, I think that the Rushworth family connection was through the WINTER Norwich family. Alice and Florence's mother was an Emma Cecily WINTER, and I'm pretty sure that one of her sisters, Augusta, married a male RUSHWORTH, hence the niece connection. Maybe the Yorkshire holiday with aunt and uncle and cousins was a favourite break of the sisters. Bridlington's quite a nice seaside place, though I have been told Filey up the coast is a preferred holiday destination today. But I mustn't start an almighty row about that on here!
Keith
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...and there is Agnes F. aged 2 in Bexleyheath, Kent in the 1871 Census with her nurse Maria de Boo.
Birthplace clearly given as Charterhouse Square London. But she never seems to be there on Census night.! Still can't find her in 1881, and as you say, she could well have been abroad in the 1901.
Interestingly, at one time or another for about 70 years up to the outbreak of WW1 in 1914, the Kershaw family occupied numbers 12-14 Charterhouse Square. Today the ground floor of numbers 13 and 14 are occupied by a cafe that serves visitors to The Charterhouse, one of London's greatest medieval/Tudor attractions. I've sat in there with a pot of tea and a slice of cake several times, imagining Kershaw family life over 100 years ago...
Keith
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Still can't find her in 1881,
Is this her, with sister Alice, transcribed as Renshaw?
RG 11/ 31/ 127/ 39
26 Norland Square (several others in the household)
Alice M Kershaw, boarder, unm, 15, scholar, London
Agnes F. do, do, do, 12, do, do
Norland Square was the original home of Notting Hill High School, which Agnes attended (reply #5)
https://www.nhehs.gdst.net/about/historygdst/
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JenB,
Yes, that absolutely has to be them. What an amazing spot on your behalf. Please take a bow!
Very many thanks,
Keith
Will have a good read of that link you have so kindly supplied too...
...Have had a look now and my first thought is that - how amazing to see that these young women in those days had to be chaperoned if they attended lectures when going on to study at university. I wonder who got chosen as chaperones.
The more I read about those negative attitudes towards bright young women trying to study in those days, the more I become drawn in to Agnes Florence's world...
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Keith,
Duke's Avenue in Muswell Hill does not seem to be in the 1901 census - which may be either that the part of the census that covered it has been lost or that it did not exist as a residential street until after the census.
However, online newspaper reports do refer to the large amount of house-building that was taking place in Muswell Hill ("transforming it from a hamlet") during the years leading up to the 1911 census - wherein Duke's Avenue does then appear.
Curiously, or perhaps not, in the 1939 Register both 14 & 16 Duke's Avenue are recorded as vacant properties. Which, personally, I find a bit odd - having just looked at them on Google Street View, as they are both substantial & quite desirable residences (as an estate agent might say).
Willyam
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Willyam,
Thanks for all this extra sleuthing. The family legend (which hasn't been standing up to scrutiny very well so far in the face of all this new evidence) suggested that Agnes Florence went into teaching, so I do not know how affordable Dukes Avenue would have been for someone on her salary.
I suppose it is a bit of a surprise, as a spinster still, she was not living in the comfortable family home in Charterhouse Square. But perhaps she was determined to be independent. I think there's an old brown suitcase up in the loft that belonged to her sister - perhaps I should have a rummage around in that to look for more clues..
Keith
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...some tiny shreds of further evidence, as I brush the dust off my hands and clothes.
Certificates from her school days at Notting Hill from the University of Cambridge board when aged fifteen and seventeen. Then a certificate of matriculation in 1888 from the University of London. Finally a certificate of distinction from the London Society for the Extension of University Teaching from the Toynbee Centre, Lent Term 1897. The course of instruction was in The Tragedies of Aeschylus and Sophocles Part One.
Would this have meant that she could have lectured at University? Were women allowed to then?
I've also come across two scrappy pieces of paper in my gt-grandma Alice's handwriting. On the first she is compiling a list of people, it appears, to whom she is wishing warm greetings (in French), talking about Noel 1929, and the New Year of 1930. One of the four people listed is a "Chere Mme Fermo". Could this be her sister Agnes Florence's mother in law, or at least a woman in the family Agnes F. married into?
And then there is a letter written on March 16th (unfortunately no year date, but I reckon it's from a similar date) from an address 16 Boulevard Clovis, Brussels, in which she says: "Jacques has decided to accept the directorship of the show in Paris (Place St Sulpice) with Vougues (possibly the first letter of this name could be an N, and there's a grave accent across the last three letters), but does not seem very enthusiastic about it. Still it will occupy his thoughts if only it is not another drain on his pocket"
Fascinating fleeting glimpses, if indeed Alice is describing her brother in law and the reason why he ended up in Paris with all those tragic consequences eventually...
Keith
Have since googled, and there's a Jean Nougues, composer of opera, 1875-1932. Maybe Jacques (Fermo?) was a backer of his latest show. Highly hypothetical, given the flimsy evidence I'm serving up, but the thought is exciting nevertheless!
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Keith,
In the context of Agnes being able to afford to live at (and perhaps own) no. 14, it may be that you are not aware of her father's Will - please forgive me if you are.
There are various newspaper items (replicated in regional newspapers) that, in September 1898, reported as follows:
"The Will (with two codicils) of Mr James Kershaw, for many years connected with the firm of Messrs. Dent, Allcroft & Co., of Charterhouse Square, who died on May 7, was proved on Aug. 19 by Edward Thomas Jones and George Christopher MacRae, the Executors, the value of the estate amounting to £20,427. The testator gives legacies to his trustees, and the residue of his property, upon trust for his two daughters, Alice Mary Gurner and Agnes Florence Kershaw, in equal proportions"
The Probate Index for 1898 also records that Mr Jones was a Chartered Accountant, Mr MacRae was a Warehouseman (although this probably meant that he owned them rather than that he just worked in a warehouse) and that the Will was "Resworn January 1899 £21,307 8s 3d".
Using a simple inflation calculator, the 2019 equivalent of £21,307 is £2,718,337!
A copy of the Will should, hopefully, provide more detail as to exactly how much of the residuary Estate devolved to Alice and Agnes. Additionally it might reveal whether or not James arranged for his assets to be retained so as to provide steady streams of income for his daughters or if they were to be liquidated to provide for equal capital sums to be paid directly to them (or to be used to purchase lifetime annuities for each of them).
Willyam
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Thanks so much for all this, Willyam,
I've had a hunt for James Kershaw, the father's will, but I'm not a very organised person I have to say, and I cannot lay hands on it at the moment.
But I have spoken to my 93 year old mother and she seems to think or remember that when the will was first written he left a third of his estate to his married daughter Alice, presumably inferring that her husband Walter Gurner was providing more financial support for her; and two thirds of the estate to Agnes Florence.
Whether by codicil or by whatever means he later made it a half and half legacy to his two daughters. Whisper it not, but some of this had to do with the fact that his son in law Walter had become a bit of a gambler and may have been squandering the family assets. Alice and Walter were married in 1886.
Must have another search for that transcript of that will to clarify yet more family rumours.
Keith
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...aforesaid will searched for and discovered, more dust disturbed...
So, James Kershaw had his first will drawn up in July 1886, but by October that year he had already tacked on Codicil 1 to remove his son in law Walter as one of the executors and replace him with George Macrae. Presumably as Alice and Walter had only married in May, I think, that year, it hadn't taken the Kershaw family long to realise/suspect what Walter's capabilities might have been.
Then, in the second codicil of 1893, the words, "...my younger daughter has now finished her college career and has a profession (that of teaching) to support her in case of need." He therefore wills that after the death of his wife his property is apportioned half and half between the two daughters, rather than a third and two thirds.
So you are quite right, Willyam, in surmising that Agnes Florence could probably afford to live in Muswell Hill in 1902...
Keith
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Hi again, Everyone,
Someone has drawn my attention today to the existence online of the Holloway College registers. At number 6 on the first page of this ledger - the first ever, though it supposedly opened in 1886? - dated 4th October 1887, is the entry for Agnes Florence Kershaw, aged 18. And further details across the double page of her parents' address, father's occupation, and her academic accomplishments.
And there, presumably subsequently added in a different hand, "Madame Fermo", and remarkably in red ink: "Died 1931".
So there it is, extraordinary how certain tiny pieces of evidence come to light suddenly to shine on those so-called ancestral brick walls.
Must totally readjust the parameters of research now to look for a final resting place, much later on than what the perceived family aural/oral history, that has suggested a much earlier demise.
Just thought I'd update the picture for those who have generously contributed to this thread or have merely followed it...
Keith