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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: Lisajb on Wednesday 02 January 19 14:27 GMT (UK)
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According to Wiltshire Archives, there was never a turnpike or tollhouse at West Kington.
Yet I have an ancestor who twice gives her abode as Toll House, West Kington in the 1851 and 1861 census, and in 1861
She is Hannah England, with husband George, daughter Hannah and grandson William Woodman in the 1851, and she is on her own there in 1861.
I'd be grateful for any Rootschatters thoughts on this mysterious toll house
Thanks
Lisa
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Have you looked for it on old maps? The 25 inch to the mile 1841 - 1852 is here for the east side of West Kington.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/120377040
and from the census enumerator's route you may be able to place it in the village.
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From the piece descriptions, I think you need to be looking somewhere in the north of the parish, though I haven't managed to find a tollbar marked on any old maps.
What I have found is the following page from the Victoria County History, which has a map showing the turnpike roads in Wiltshire. (The map is an image which you can click and then expand to view at a larger scale.) The ones passing through West Kington appear to be those numbered 20 and 30.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol4/pp254-271
Comparing this with an OS map, I wonder if the toll road in question is the one you can see running roughly south-westwards from Burton towards Hinton and Dyrham.
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The nearest I can find is at Burton, B4039 ST83 80 - Civil Parish Nettleton- Marshfield Trust?
Try www.turnpikes.org.uk/Tollhouses/Wilts.htm
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I can't see it on any maps either.
In 1861 it appears between Down Farm and Rownham which can seen here
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=51.4920&lon=-2.3163&layers=10&right=BingHyb
and these are followed by Magsgrave which lay to the south-east
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In the District Descriptions in both 1851 and 1861 it says Westfield Road and Toll house
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Hope I am not repeating anyone's links. Could it be the house in the centre here?
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=51.5067&lon=-2.2986&layers=6&right=BingHyb
and at the T junction SW of Westfield Farm here
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=51.5075&lon=-2.2924&layers=10&right=BingHyb
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Hope I am not repeating anyone's links. Could it be the house in the centre here?
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=51.5067&lon=-2.2986&layers=6&right=BingHyb
and at the T junction SW of Westfield Farm here
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=51.5075&lon=-2.2924&layers=10&right=BingHyb
I was just zooming along the road looking for that one. It's called Kington Down Cottage.
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Picture of that cottage here....
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/327027
though I wonder if this is a modern rebuild?
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Here's a frustrating map!
Top left-hand corner, which would be close to where Westfield Farm was, it says '....... Gate' :-\
https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/gallery/map/nettleton_map002.jpg
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Frustrating indeed!! Good find. I wonder if Wiltshire Archives have the original?
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Here's a frustrating map!
Top left-hand corner, which would be close to where Westfield Farm was, it says '....... Gate' :-\
https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/gallery/map/nettleton_map002.jpg
I should have said that that map is an extract from Andrews' and Dury's 1810 Map of Wiltshire.
https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getcom.php?id=168
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Here's a frustrating map!
Top left-hand corner, which would be close to where Westfield Farm was, it says '....... Gate' :-\
https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/gallery/map/nettleton_map002.jpg
I haven't checked all the references in this thread but "gate" on a map doesn't necessarily mean a toll gate. There were plenty of gates across the highway to control livestock.
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I haven't checked all the references in this thread but "gate" on a map doesn't necessarily mean a toll gate.
I wasn't suggesting that it did!
But the word 'gate' might have been significant and was worth following up, particularly as it was possibly in the right area.
In fact it was called 'Old Bottom Gate' as shown on this map , half-way down, left hand side
http://www.wiltshirerecordsociety.org.uk/map/wrs_v08_map_13.jpg
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Not that it helps but Mr Google’s maps tell me that Nettleton and West Kington are 1.5 miles apart.
I seem to recall that the 1841 census for West Kington hasn’t survived, or is lost
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Another map, cannot see any toll gate/house though.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/os-1-to-10560/wiltshire/019
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Mr Google’s maps again! There’s a Toll Down Way in Burton. Looks modern though.
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I don't think the toll roads,mentioned in answer #2 go throuigh West Kington, they are nearby but a different rout. Having driven through there I cannot see West Kington being on a major route that would warrant a toll gate.
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Just going back to my earlier post
In the District Descriptions in both 1851 and 1861 it says Westfield Road and Toll house
We need to find Westfield Road.
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I love my ancestors, always so easy to find... >:(
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I don't think the toll roads,mentioned in answer #2 go throuigh West Kington, they are nearby but a different rout. Having driven through there I cannot see West Kington being on a major route that would warrant a toll gate.
Not through the centre of the village, but nearby and in the parish. One of the routes shown appears to be just south of the county boundary, and if it's not that road going SW from Burton, I'm not sure what it is.
It can also be seen on this map: http://www.turnpikes.org.uk/map%20Wiltshire%20turnpikes.jpg
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I cannot agree, but that is my opinion. Not sure if this link will work; https://www.google.com/maps/@51.493924,-2.2780414,3a,60y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm12T5_oR6SenSUXq0PQLsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Just going back to my earlier post
In the District Descriptions in both 1851 and 1861 it says Westfield Road and Toll house
We need to find Westfield Road.
Just flinging this into the mix:
1871 census
R10/1895/26/13
The final entry on the page is Westfield Road.
The next entry, on page 14, is Kington Wick.
John Hall, head, m, mar, 70, ag lab, Bristol
Hannah do, wife, mar, 65, toll gate keeper,
The Toll house is also mentioned in association with Westfield Road in the District description in 1881.
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Westfield Road and Toll House are also specifically mentioned in the district descriptions of West Kington in the censuses of 1891 and 1901, but I'm blowed if I can find them in any of the actual census pages.
It is also in the enumerators book for the 1911 census. The sequence is: Cross Roads, Ebbsdown Farm. Rownham farm, Toll House, Field Barn Farm, Burton Road Cottages.
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I cannot agree, but that is my opinion. Not sure if this link will work; https://www.google.com/maps/@51.493924,-2.2780414,3a,60y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm12T5_oR6SenSUXq0PQLsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
That link takes me to Drifton Hill, which isn't the road I meant. The one I was referring to is the one running past Kington Down Cottage, which I think might be Burton Road. I hope this link works - it should show that road as it passes Kington Down Cottage:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5053528,-2.2998498,3a,37.5y,76.5h,89.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdzD3oMyjNhG8tc_IHMp0Iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I haven't yet found any definitive proof that that was a turnpike road with toll bars etc, but I have come up with a couple of hints:
1. Where that road crosses Marshfield Road near the NW corner of the parish, there is a cottage which the modern OS 1:25,000 map labels Turnpike Cottage, and a little to the west is Turnpike Farm. I'm not sure if this is what we're looking for, but it suggests either that there was a turnpike at that junction, or that someone else thought there was when they named the cottage. This map can be seen at Bing Maps - select Ordnance Survey and zoom in to get that scale.
2. The road from there to Nettleton (going past Kington Down Cottage) has milestones showing the distance from Bristol in one direction, and Christian Malford in the other - these are marked on historic large scale OS maps. This suggests to me that at one time the road was considered fairly significant and used by people travelling more than just locally, to whom such distances would be relevant - just the sort of road that might have turnpikes and tolls.
With Google street view I've had a look for a couple of the milestones on this stretch of road: one seemed to be missing and the other was illegible. But if they can be read, I think occasionally they have a few historical clues.
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Westfield Road and Toll House are also specifically mentioned in the district descriptions of West Kington in the censuses of 1891 and 1901, but I'm blowed if I can find them in any of the actual census pages.
It is also in the enumerators book for the 1911 census. The sequence is: Cross Roads, Ebbsdown Farm. Rownham farm, Toll House, Field Barn Farm, Burton Road Cottages.
You can see these farms on the side by side at https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=51.4916&lon=-2.3145&layers=6&right=BingHyb
Stan
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She is Hannah England, with husband George, daughter Hannah and grandson William Woodman in the 1851, and she is on her own there in 1861.
Actually she appears to be there with
John Hall, h[ea]d of f[amily], mar, 61, farmer of four acres, Bristol Gloucestershire
Hanah Hall, wife, mar, 51, Little Sodbury do
Sarah Jane Hall, grand dau, un, 5, West Kington Wilts.
RG 9 / 1280/ 70/ 1
This is the same John and Hannah enumerated at Kington Wick in 1871 and Hannah is a toll gate keeper.
1871 census
R10/1895/26/13
The final entry on the page is Westfield Road.
The next entry, on page 14, is Kington Wick.
John Hall, head, m, mar, 70, ag lab, Bristol
Hannah do, wife, mar, 65, toll gate keeper,
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The 1911 census lists the Toll House between Rownham farm, and Field Barn Farm. This appears to there is a building in that position https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=51.4940&lon=-2.3048&layers=6&right=BingHyb
Now derelict https://goo.gl/maps/ChoWwvyipfQ2
or possibly could be https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.4946&lon=-2.2943&layers=168&b=1
The Cross Roads in the sequence Cross Roads, Ebbsdown Farm. Rownham farm, Toll House, Field Barn Farm, will be https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.4975&lon=-2.3249&layers=168&b=1
Stan
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She is Hannah England, with husband George, daughter Hannah and grandson William Woodman in the 1851, and she is on her own there in 1861.
Actually she appears to be there with
John Hall, h[ea]d of f[amily], mar, 61, farmer of four acres, Bristol Gloucestershire
Hanah Hall, wife, mar, 51, Little Sodbury do
Sarah Jane Hall, grand dau, un, 5, West Kington Wilts.
RG 9 / 1280/ 70/ 1
This is the same John and Hannah enumerated at Kington Wick in 1871 and Hannah is a toll gate keeper.
1871 census
R10/1895/26/13
The final entry on the page is Westfield Road.
The next entry, on page 14, is Kington Wick.
John Hall, head, m, mar, 70, ag lab, Bristol
Hannah do, wife, mar, 65, toll gate keeper,
Two households within the toll house in 1861? There are the two little lines separating her from the Halls.
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My apologies, you are quite right. I can't see straight :-[
So, they are right next door to her in 1861, and Hannah is toll gate keeper in 1871.
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Just going back to my earlier post
In the District Descriptions in both 1851 and 1861 it says Westfield Road and Toll house
We need to find Westfield Road.
Just flinging this into the mix:
1871 census
R10/1895/26/13
The final entry on the page is Westfield Road.
The next entry, on page 14, is Kington Wick.
John Hall, head, m, mar, 70, ag lab, Bristol
Hannah do, wife, mar, 65, toll gate keeper,
The Toll house is also mentioned in association with Westfield Road in the District description in 1881.
I would imagine that Westfield Road has some relation to (the area around?) Westfield Farm, to the north of West Kington village centre, though the farm itself and the road running past it appear to be in the parish of Nettleton.
I also find the 1871 census entry rather puzzling. All the other census entries seem to relate to the north or west side of the village centre, yet Kington Wick is to the south-east. So I wonder - could John have been an ag lab in tied accommodation at Kington Wick (because he was working there at the time), while she went over to look after the toll gate on the other side of the village each day? I haven't seen any evidence of one in the Kington Wick area.
Did toll gates close at night, or was there someone there to open them and collect tolls 24/7?
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Vision of Britain http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk
Search for "West Kington"
Click on map
Select first map in list (1805-1869)
On the 1830 map returned West Kington is marked as West Keynton. Turnpikes are identified by the key "TP".
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Thanks for finding that and pointing it out. Unfortunately I can't see any turnpikes in West Kington, though there are some marked in Marshfield and on the main road through Tormarton.
So if there were any in West Kington, perhaps they were established after 1830. The next map I've found is from the 1880s, by which time turnpikes aren't marked any more. Had they been abolished by then?
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I couldn’t see a TP but I’m using my tablet
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According to this there was one in Nettleton, but out of use in 1830
http://www.turnpikes.org.uk/Tollhouses%20of%20Wiltshire.htm
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According to this there was one in Nettleton, but out of use in 1830
http://www.turnpikes.org.uk/Tollhouses%20of%20Wiltshire.htm
Reply #3 :) (link doesn't work now :-\ )
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According to this there was one in Nettleton, but out of use in 1830
http://www.turnpikes.org.uk/Tollhouses%20of%20Wiltshire.htm
Reply #3 :) (link doesn't work now :-\ )
Sorry, should have reread the thread :)