RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Hannah Hayward on Thursday 03 January 19 00:39 GMT (UK)

Title: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: Hannah Hayward on Thursday 03 January 19 00:39 GMT (UK)
Hi not sure where to post this but I need some help if any one can! My 3 x great grandad
Jacob prime 1848-1899 I can find him on 1891 England census and also his marriage in 1870. It states his place of birth as USA and his father's name John.
Can anyone help me or point me in the right direction of finding out where in the USA Jacob Prime was born/from?

I cant find anything before the marriage although I think he may be on the 1871 census as Chas j prime but I'm unsure and looking for a little advise thank you
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 00:45 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

Can you give us what you know?  Whom did he marry in 1870 (& where)?  Have you found him/them in 1881? Where is the tentative Chas J Prime in 1871?

What was Jacobís occupation, and the reported occupation of his father John, and who were the 1870 marriage witnesses?
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 03 January 19 00:54 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat.

Someone will hopefully move this to a more appropriate board.

Is this him on the 1891 census?: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q4ZV-JT2

1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJN-5JS

Jamjar
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 00:54 GMT (UK)
I see that in 1891 Jacob and wife Elizabeth are in Bethnal Green with 9 children all born there.

RG12/261/32/60.
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 03 January 19 00:58 GMT (UK)
I canít see them in 1881.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 00:59 GMT (UK)
So - marriage is to Elizabeth Bailey, Dec qtr 1870 Bethnal Green.

Offspring start with Henry James Prime, motherís maiden name Bailey, Jun qtr 1871 Bethnal Green.

He was born 1 April 1871 and baptised 23 April 1871 at St Matthew, Bethnal Green, son of James & Elizabeth.  However when he was enrolled at school in 1878 his fatherís name was recorded as John Prime, of 56 Old Castle St.
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 03 January 19 01:02 GMT (UK)
Marriage:

Dec 1870 Bethnal Green 1c 787
PRIME Jacob   
BAILEY Elizabeth.

Jamjar    
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 01:10 GMT (UK)
I see that the 1871 census record shows Chas J Prime (23, porter, born USA) and Elizabeth at 7 Old Castle St - the same street as the address given when their son Henry started at Virginia Rd School in 1878.  This is surely the right couple.  The baby isnít listed though he ought to have been if born on 1 April, as the census date was the night of 2/3 April.  Perhaps they didnít realise this or filled in the form early and forgot to add him in.

1871: RG10/475/40/4.
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 01:16 GMT (UK)
Later sibling enrolments at Virginia Rd School yield an address very close to the 1881 census date:

Admitted 25 Apr 1881

Elizabeth Prime born 7 Mar 1875
Florence Prime born 25 Jun 1877

daughters of Jacob Prime, of 54 Old Castle St.  Previous school attended: Wood Green.
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 01:26 GMT (UK)
Sadly in the 1881 census they are not at the 54, 56 or 58 Old Castle St addresses which crop up in various records for the family.  Perhaps they were in the course of a move back from Wood Green (as per the girlsí school record) and got missed? (The son Jacob was born in Edmonton district in 1880, which covered Wood Green)

54 Old Castle St in 1881: RG11/410/107/32. 
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 01:56 GMT (UK)
I see there is an online tree tentatively identifying him as the Jacob Mark Prime born in Indiana in 1848, son of John and Rebecca.

However that Jacob is easy to trace in US records; he died in California in 1935, so can I think be ruled out.
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: Daisypetal on Thursday 03 January 19 02:39 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Welcome to RootsChat :)



I think that I've found the family in 1881 transcribed as PRINCE,


1881  RG1/1386  f.112  p.15  Tottenham, Middlesex  (Registration district:  Edmonton)
Hillside Rd, 2 Alexandra Terrace

PRINCE
Jacob         Head    30    Fishmonger     America
Elizabeth     Wife    28                            Middx  Shoreditch
Henry           Son    10                               "          "
Ada              Daur     8                               "          "
Elizabeth     Daur     5                                "          "
Florence     Daur     3                                 "          "
Jacob           Son     1                               Middx Tottam



"London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965" shows that in 1883 they are registered at 54 Old Castle St, Bethnal Green.


Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 03:27 GMT (UK)
Oh well done Daisy - great find :)
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 07:37 GMT (UK)
Worth checking this one out

1850 Harrison Town, Howard co. Indiana
John Prime   64 farmer born Mass
Rebecca Prime   48
Nathaniel Prime   71
William Prime   19
John T Prime   16
Mariah Prime   12
Mary Prime   9
Margaret Prime   7
Jacob Prime   4 born Indiana
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: Hannah Hayward on Thursday 03 January 19 09:40 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much, yes I believe the 1881 cencus they are prince,  and they lived in bethnal green, the children attending Virginia rd school, and he married Elizabeth in 1870,  I also believe Jacob(/Chas/James/John) was of black descent. I think chas j prime name is on the poor law records from bethnal green, but that's all I can find! Its the pre 1870's that have got me!
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 11:18 GMT (UK)
Worth checking this one out

1850 Harrison Town, Howard co. Indiana
John Prime   64 farmer born Mass
Rebecca Prime   48
Nathaniel Prime   71
William Prime   19
John T Prime   16
Mariah Prime   12
Mary Prime   9
Margaret Prime   7
Jacob Prime   4 born Indiana

That looks like the one I mentioned at reply #10, who died in California in 1935.
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 03 January 19 11:23 GMT (UK)
I think chas j prime name is on the poor law records from bethnal green, but that's all I can find!

Can you expand on this - what entries are there for the family in the Poor Law records?
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 11:23 GMT (UK)
Sorry avm, I didn't have time this morning to follow them through the US census
Title: Re: Help me! Please!
Post by: Hannah Hayward on Thursday 03 January 19 14:55 GMT (UK)
I think chas j prime name is on the poor law records from bethnal green, but that's all I can find!

Can you expand on this - what entries are there for the family in the Poor Law records?

England, Selected Poor Law Removal and Settlement Records, 1698-1930 the results for Prime give chas prime and Elizabeth prime but I can't view them to confirm x
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 17:37 GMT (UK)
Searching for Missing Friends: Irish Immigrant Advertisements Placed in "The Boston Pilot" 1931-1920Missing Friends

date of publication 1 Jan 1876

"Of Jacob Prime (colored) who left Connecticut about seven years ago; he wrote a letter five years ago, and I have not heard of or from him. I have written to London where he was at the time he wrote, but the letters were sent back. His mother, Mary Prime, is anxious about him. Direct to Mary Prime, 10 Morgan Street, New Bedford, Mass."

This would give a date of leaving the USA around 1869
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 17:53 GMT (UK)
possibly his mother  1860 New Haven, Connecticut
Charles W Brallley   28 saloon Keeper
Rebecca M Brallley   30
Charles R Brallley   8
Geo W Boardman   23
Alfred Stone   21
John Lachell   17
Mary Prime (B) 45  cook born Connecticut
Susan Hill (B) 47 cook
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 18:00 GMT (UK)
1850
New HavenConnecticut
John Prime    (B) 50 labourer  from NY
Mary Prime   (B) 35 from NY
Julia A Prime   16
John L Prime   15
Louisa Prime   11
Ralphaella Prime   9
Martha Prime   7
Jacob B Prime   14
Joseph Prime   1

all children born Connecticut... on the image it does say Jacob is 14 but also a child, which makes me think he should be down as age 4, it doesn't say he has attended school like his older siblings. Also his middle initial is either B or possibly P or R?
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 18:22 GMT (UK)
this is only a possibility for his father John's death
John Prime
Death Date   05 Nov 1862
Age   67

GS Film number   3187
sadly that's all FamilySearch is showing online
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 18:31 GMT (UK)
this looks like the family in New Haven, Conn  in 1860
Mary   Prime 40    Washer
Harriet L   Prime 19 laundress
Raphaella   Prime 17 laundress
Martha   Prime 15 laundress
Jacob   Prime 13
Joseph   Prime 10
Andrew   Prime 8
Sarah   Prime 6

I wonder if Mary was listed twice?
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 18:35 GMT (UK)
looks like Jacob was also in the army during the civil war
Jacob Prime
state Connecticut
regiment 29th Regiment Connecticut Inf. (Colored)
company I
private
Film number   M589 roll 70

his brother Joseph was also in the civil war
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: Daisypetal on Thursday 03 January 19 18:37 GMT (UK)

Hi,

I think you're right about the 1850 census, it does seem odd that he is 14 as I think I've found him here in 1860,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n7p/

PRIME

Mary              40    Washer        
Harriet L        19    Seamstress           
Raphaella     17        "    "         
Martha          15        "    "         
Jacob           13         
Joseph        10         
Andrew          8           
Sarah            6       

Children all born Connecticut, no POB for Mary.
Jacob, Joseph, Andrew and Sarah have been to school in this year.     


If this is the right one you were right about the balck descent, the family are recorded as balck in both the 1850 and 1860 census.

Regards,
Daisy

Oops, sorry jc26red, I was obviously typing at the same time as you :)
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 18:58 GMT (UK)
brother John L Prime born c1835  New Haven Enlisted in the Navy (United States Naval Enlistment Rendezvous, 1855-1891) image is on FamilySearch
interestingly his occupation is given as WAITER height 5' 4"

also listed here https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search-sailors-detail.htm?sailorId=PRI0019
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 19:06 GMT (UK)
this is only a possibility for his father John's death
John Prime
Death Date   05 Nov 1862
Age   67

GS Film number   3187
sadly that's all FamilySearch is showing online

Ancestry has (Hale Collection) Newspaper notice index for this death
John Prime
New Haven
(negro)
died Nov 5 1862
age 67
date of publication 15 Nov 1862

original source is Connecticut State Library; Hartford, Connecticut
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 19:09 GMT (UK)
1860
brother John L Prime is in Boston
James Scott   52
Marie Scott   30
Julianna Scott   21
Henry Scott   20
Thomas P Taylor   25
John L Prime   26  Waiter  born Conn
John H Cerenber   40
John Bugher   68
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 19:21 GMT (UK)
younger brother Andrew is in New York in 1870 and is also a WAITER
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Thursday 03 January 19 19:30 GMT (UK)
there is another Prime family living in New Haven at the same time Thomas (1905-1879)and Harriet Prime (1789-1873).
They had a daughter Harriet L Prime who died in 1841 the same year that John and Mary Prime had their daughter Harriet L Prime (also down as Louisa on one of the census). 
Thomas also states he is from New York, and I believe he is possibly John Prime snr's brother.  This might give you another angle to research. They had several children
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: Hannah Hayward on Friday 04 January 19 15:17 GMT (UK)
Wow firstly thank you all so much, this family does certainly look like a possibly! How would I be sure that this is the correct family of Jacob Prime?
Title: Re: Jacob prime 1848-1899
Post by: jc26red on Friday 04 January 19 17:40 GMT (UK)
Searching for Missing Friends: Irish Immigrant Advertisements Placed in "The Boston Pilot" 1931-1920Missing Friends

date of publication 1 Jan 1876

"Of Jacob Prime (colored) who left Connecticut about seven years ago; he wrote a letter five years ago, and I have not heard of or from him. I have written to London where he was at the time he wrote, but the letters were sent back. His mother, Mary Prime, is anxious about him. Direct to Mary Prime, 10 Morgan Street, New Bedford, Mass."

This would give a date of leaving the USA around 1869

Finding the above newspaper posting was a big breakthrough and is almost certainly him. Arriving in England around 1869, just before his marriage in London.

You know from his marriage details that his father was called John Prime and Jacobís occupation was WAITER. 

I could only find the one John and Mary Prime in the census with a son called Jacob using the locations mentioned in the above Newspaper notice.

Following through his brothers census entries and military careers, they all mention they were also waiters. The coincidence of that happening is very slim.

There isnít any incoming passenger listings for that time frame unfortunately.

Connecticut baptisms for new Haven, Connecticut are also not online, but that would only confirm parents and baptism date.

You might also be interested to know that on brother Josephís civil war record it states he was a free man in 1861.

I donít know if you will find a marriage for John and Mary, I suspect it will have taken place in New York...
 Getting closer to 1800, you will probably also need to check slave records.

I think this is as close as itís going to get, I believe everything ties up with what you already know about Jacob.

I found everything using Ancestry, FindMyPast and FamilySearch.

Good luck with your further research

Jenny