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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Hannah Hayward on Thursday 03 January 19 00:39 GMT (UK)
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Hi not sure where to post this but I need some help if any one can! My 3 x great grandad
Jacob prime 1848-1899 I can find him on 1891 England census and also his marriage in 1870. It states his place of birth as USA and his father's name John.
Can anyone help me or point me in the right direction of finding out where in the USA Jacob Prime was born/from?
I cant find anything before the marriage although I think he may be on the 1871 census as Chas j prime but I'm unsure and looking for a little advise thank you
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Welcome to Rootschat :)
Can you give us what you know? Whom did he marry in 1870 (& where)? Have you found him/them in 1881? Where is the tentative Chas J Prime in 1871?
What was Jacob’s occupation, and the reported occupation of his father John, and who were the 1870 marriage witnesses?
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Someone will hopefully move this to a more appropriate board.
Is this him on the 1891 census?: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q4ZV-JT2
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJN-5JS
Jamjar
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I see that in 1891 Jacob and wife Elizabeth are in Bethnal Green with 9 children all born there.
RG12/261/32/60.
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I can’t see them in 1881.
Jamjar
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So - marriage is to Elizabeth Bailey, Dec qtr 1870 Bethnal Green.
Offspring start with Henry James Prime, mother’s maiden name Bailey, Jun qtr 1871 Bethnal Green.
He was born 1 April 1871 and baptised 23 April 1871 at St Matthew, Bethnal Green, son of James & Elizabeth. However when he was enrolled at school in 1878 his father’s name was recorded as John Prime, of 56 Old Castle St.
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Marriage:
Dec 1870 Bethnal Green 1c 787
PRIME Jacob
BAILEY Elizabeth.
Jamjar
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I see that the 1871 census record shows Chas J Prime (23, porter, born USA) and Elizabeth at 7 Old Castle St - the same street as the address given when their son Henry started at Virginia Rd School in 1878. This is surely the right couple. The baby isn’t listed though he ought to have been if born on 1 April, as the census date was the night of 2/3 April. Perhaps they didn’t realise this or filled in the form early and forgot to add him in.
1871: RG10/475/40/4.
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Later sibling enrolments at Virginia Rd School yield an address very close to the 1881 census date:
Admitted 25 Apr 1881
Elizabeth Prime born 7 Mar 1875
Florence Prime born 25 Jun 1877
daughters of Jacob Prime, of 54 Old Castle St. Previous school attended: Wood Green.
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Sadly in the 1881 census they are not at the 54, 56 or 58 Old Castle St addresses which crop up in various records for the family. Perhaps they were in the course of a move back from Wood Green (as per the girls’ school record) and got missed? (The son Jacob was born in Edmonton district in 1880, which covered Wood Green)
54 Old Castle St in 1881: RG11/410/107/32.
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I see there is an online tree tentatively identifying him as the Jacob Mark Prime born in Indiana in 1848, son of John and Rebecca.
However that Jacob is easy to trace in US records; he died in California in 1935, so can I think be ruled out.
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I think that I've found the family in 1881 transcribed as PRINCE,
1881 RG1/1386 f.112 p.15 Tottenham, Middlesex (Registration district: Edmonton)
Hillside Rd, 2 Alexandra Terrace
PRINCE
Jacob Head 30 Fishmonger America
Elizabeth Wife 28 Middx Shoreditch
Henry Son 10 " "
Ada Daur 8 " "
Elizabeth Daur 5 " "
Florence Daur 3 " "
Jacob Son 1 Middx Tottam
"London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965" shows that in 1883 they are registered at 54 Old Castle St, Bethnal Green.
Regards,
Daisy
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Oh well done Daisy - great find :)
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Worth checking this one out
1850 Harrison Town, Howard co. Indiana
John Prime 64 farmer born Mass
Rebecca Prime 48
Nathaniel Prime 71
William Prime 19
John T Prime 16
Mariah Prime 12
Mary Prime 9
Margaret Prime 7
Jacob Prime 4 born Indiana
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Thank you so much, yes I believe the 1881 cencus they are prince, and they lived in bethnal green, the children attending Virginia rd school, and he married Elizabeth in 1870, I also believe Jacob(/Chas/James/John) was of black descent. I think chas j prime name is on the poor law records from bethnal green, but that's all I can find! Its the pre 1870's that have got me!
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Worth checking this one out
1850 Harrison Town, Howard co. Indiana
John Prime 64 farmer born Mass
Rebecca Prime 48
Nathaniel Prime 71
William Prime 19
John T Prime 16
Mariah Prime 12
Mary Prime 9
Margaret Prime 7
Jacob Prime 4 born Indiana
That looks like the one I mentioned at reply #10, who died in California in 1935.
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I think chas j prime name is on the poor law records from bethnal green, but that's all I can find!
Can you expand on this - what entries are there for the family in the Poor Law records?
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Sorry avm, I didn't have time this morning to follow them through the US census
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I think chas j prime name is on the poor law records from bethnal green, but that's all I can find!
Can you expand on this - what entries are there for the family in the Poor Law records?
England, Selected Poor Law Removal and Settlement Records, 1698-1930 the results for Prime give chas prime and Elizabeth prime but I can't view them to confirm x
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Searching for Missing Friends: Irish Immigrant Advertisements Placed in "The Boston Pilot" 1931-1920Missing Friends
date of publication 1 Jan 1876
"Of Jacob Prime (colored) who left Connecticut about seven years ago; he wrote a letter five years ago, and I have not heard of or from him. I have written to London where he was at the time he wrote, but the letters were sent back. His mother, Mary Prime, is anxious about him. Direct to Mary Prime, 10 Morgan Street, New Bedford, Mass."
This would give a date of leaving the USA around 1869
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possibly his mother 1860 New Haven, Connecticut
Charles W Brallley 28 saloon Keeper
Rebecca M Brallley 30
Charles R Brallley 8
Geo W Boardman 23
Alfred Stone 21
John Lachell 17
Mary Prime (B) 45 cook born Connecticut
Susan Hill (B) 47 cook
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1850
New HavenConnecticut
John Prime (B) 50 labourer from NY
Mary Prime (B) 35 from NY
Julia A Prime 16
John L Prime 15
Louisa Prime 11
Ralphaella Prime 9
Martha Prime 7
Jacob B Prime 14
Joseph Prime 1
all children born Connecticut... on the image it does say Jacob is 14 but also a child, which makes me think he should be down as age 4, it doesn't say he has attended school like his older siblings. Also his middle initial is either B or possibly P or R?
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this is only a possibility for his father John's death
John Prime
Death Date 05 Nov 1862
Age 67
GS Film number 3187
sadly that's all FamilySearch is showing online
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this looks like the family in New Haven, Conn in 1860
Mary Prime 40 Washer
Harriet L Prime 19 laundress
Raphaella Prime 17 laundress
Martha Prime 15 laundress
Jacob Prime 13
Joseph Prime 10
Andrew Prime 8
Sarah Prime 6
I wonder if Mary was listed twice?
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looks like Jacob was also in the army during the civil war
Jacob Prime
state Connecticut
regiment 29th Regiment Connecticut Inf. (Colored)
company I
private
Film number M589 roll 70
his brother Joseph was also in the civil war
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Hi,
I think you're right about the 1850 census, it does seem odd that he is 14 as I think I've found him here in 1860,
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n7p/
PRIME
Mary 40 Washer
Harriet L 19 Seamstress
Raphaella 17 " "
Martha 15 " "
Jacob 13
Joseph 10
Andrew 8
Sarah 6
Children all born Connecticut, no POB for Mary.
Jacob, Joseph, Andrew and Sarah have been to school in this year.
If this is the right one you were right about the balck descent, the family are recorded as balck in both the 1850 and 1860 census.
Regards,
Daisy
Oops, sorry jc26red, I was obviously typing at the same time as you :)
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brother John L Prime born c1835 New Haven Enlisted in the Navy (United States Naval Enlistment Rendezvous, 1855-1891) image is on FamilySearch
interestingly his occupation is given as WAITER height 5' 4"
also listed here https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search-sailors-detail.htm?sailorId=PRI0019
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this is only a possibility for his father John's death
John Prime
Death Date 05 Nov 1862
Age 67
GS Film number 3187
sadly that's all FamilySearch is showing online
Ancestry has (Hale Collection) Newspaper notice index for this death
John Prime
New Haven
(negro)
died Nov 5 1862
age 67
date of publication 15 Nov 1862
original source is Connecticut State Library; Hartford, Connecticut
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1860
brother John L Prime is in Boston
James Scott 52
Marie Scott 30
Julianna Scott 21
Henry Scott 20
Thomas P Taylor 25
John L Prime 26 Waiter born Conn
John H Cerenber 40
John Bugher 68
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younger brother Andrew is in New York in 1870 and is also a WAITER
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there is another Prime family living in New Haven at the same time Thomas (1905-1879)and Harriet Prime (1789-1873).
They had a daughter Harriet L Prime who died in 1841 the same year that John and Mary Prime had their daughter Harriet L Prime (also down as Louisa on one of the census).
Thomas also states he is from New York, and I believe he is possibly John Prime snr's brother. This might give you another angle to research. They had several children
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Wow firstly thank you all so much, this family does certainly look like a possibly! How would I be sure that this is the correct family of Jacob Prime?
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Searching for Missing Friends: Irish Immigrant Advertisements Placed in "The Boston Pilot" 1931-1920Missing Friends
date of publication 1 Jan 1876
"Of Jacob Prime (colored) who left Connecticut about seven years ago; he wrote a letter five years ago, and I have not heard of or from him. I have written to London where he was at the time he wrote, but the letters were sent back. His mother, Mary Prime, is anxious about him. Direct to Mary Prime, 10 Morgan Street, New Bedford, Mass."
This would give a date of leaving the USA around 1869
Finding the above newspaper posting was a big breakthrough and is almost certainly him. Arriving in England around 1869, just before his marriage in London.
You know from his marriage details that his father was called John Prime and Jacob’s occupation was WAITER.
I could only find the one John and Mary Prime in the census with a son called Jacob using the locations mentioned in the above Newspaper notice.
Following through his brothers census entries and military careers, they all mention they were also waiters. The coincidence of that happening is very slim.
There isn’t any incoming passenger listings for that time frame unfortunately.
Connecticut baptisms for new Haven, Connecticut are also not online, but that would only confirm parents and baptism date.
You might also be interested to know that on brother Joseph’s civil war record it states he was a free man in 1861.
I don’t know if you will find a marriage for John and Mary, I suspect it will have taken place in New York...
Getting closer to 1800, you will probably also need to check slave records.
I think this is as close as it’s going to get, I believe everything ties up with what you already know about Jacob.
I found everything using Ancestry, FindMyPast and FamilySearch.
Good luck with your further research
Jenny