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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: shoshannah on Friday 04 January 19 19:07 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to trace my family tree but have got in a big of a muddle.
I am looking for the parents of Griffith Evans and Ellen. Their children are Oliver b 1905, Richard b 1909 and Maud b1911.
I have them on the 1911 census living at 26 Eisteddfod Street, Cardiff.
Griffith (transcribed as Authth!) Evans aged 31, Manager in Boot shop, born Llandumstwy, Carnarvon
Ellen (transcribed as Ellere) Evans aged 29, born Blaenau Festiniog, Merionethshire
Oliver aged 6 also born Blaenau
Richard aged 2 also born Blaenau
The census says they had been married 7 years making their wedding in 1904. The only Griffith and Ellen marriages I could find close to this date are 1905, one to Ellen Jones in Carnarvon and the other to Ellen Davies in 1905 in Ffestiniog.
I hadn’t realised quite how prevalent the Evans, Jones and Davies families were!
Is anyone able to help please?
Thank you,
Shoshannah
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If you look up the childrens births on freebmd and then use GRO online it will give you Ellen's maiden name
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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Could this be Oliver - if so - mmn was Davies
Births June qtr 1905
Evans Oliver Festiniog 11b 396
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Thank you CaroleW, I didn’t know I could search like that on the GRO website, that it really useful.
Thank you!
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CaroleW,
Oliver was born 25th March 1905. Presumably June on the GRO birth register just means he was registered in the 2nd Q as he was born end of the 1st Q?
I can see a Richard Arthur Evans born 1908 that seems to fit but cannot find Maud. Any idea how to go about finding her?
Thanks again
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From the September qtr 1911 mothers maiden name is shown on birth entries. Maud is not on the 1911 so where did you get her birthyear of 1911 from? Was Maud b Cardiff as there is no birth showing 1911 - 1912
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My relative made a family tree many years ago going back to Griffith Evans showing his three children as Oliver b 1905, Richard b 1907 and Maud 1911. As Richards b date isn’t quite right, it’s possible that Maud’s isn’t either. Oliver was his father though so I’d assume the names of his aunt and uncle should be correct. Sadly, I have no other information about them at all.
Thank you
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Is it possible that Maud was married to Richard?
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I suppose it could be possible he made a mistake, but the hand drawn family tree shows it clearly as 3 children.
Thanks,
Shosh
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As they were in Glamorgan in 1911 it would be logical that Maud would have been born there but there is no Maud Evans birth in Glamorgan with a mmn of Davies between Sept qtr 1911 and 1920 nor in any other area of Wales
www.freebmd.org.uk
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Hi again,
I have ordered the birth certificate of Richard Arthur b 1908 so hopefully this will give me the correct info. I have also ordered what I hope is the marriage record for Griffith and Ellen in the hope I can establish who their parents were.
Sadly, I am still no further forward with Maud!
Shosh
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Do you know of any other certificates or websites that I can order or use to be able to get back further in my family tree please?
Thank you again,
Shosh
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Sometimes it's not necessary to buy certs - just depends what can be found online.
Griffith was born around 1880 and married as just Griffith - no middle name - so have a look at this 1881 entry - all children born Llanystumdwy, Caernarvonshire which is the birthplace you posted from the 1911 entry
34 New St Ynyscynhaiarn
Evan Evans 30 b Harlech, Merionethshire slater and plasterer
Catherine 31 b Penmorfa, Caernarvonshire,
Lewis 7
Mary Jane 5
Evan 3
Griffith 1
John Roberts 17 lodger b Merionethshire - plasterer
RG11 Piece 5553 Folio 123 Page 40
Before going further forwards or backwards - it may be a good idea to buy a copy of Griffith's marriage cert to confirm his fathers name and occupation as there are 2 possibilities for his parents marriage
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Thank you again Carole,
I hadn’t found that census entry. I’ll be back when the certificates have arrived!
Shosh
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Hi again,
I’ve received the birth certificate for Richard and it’s a perfect fit.
Born 1908 in BF. Father is Griffith Evans, mother Ellen Evans formerly Davies. Father is a boot stores manager which fits with the same profession on 1911 census.
I’m not sure if I have anything else to work on yet that will confirm the above information you found is the right family but it seems hopeful.
As an aside, do you know how I can find out what Boot store he may have managed? I always thought all that side of the family were slate miners so this was a surprise!
Thanks as always,
Shosh
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I would imagine it would be difficult to determine his exact place of work unless you can locate any trade directories for 1911 for that area
Are you still waiting for Griffith’s 1905 marriage cert to confirm his fathers name? It would be a clincher if one of his brothers was a witness. It will also give Ellen’s fathers name and occ. Let’s hope he has an unusual christian name and occ as Davies is a very common surname!!
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Hiya,
Yes, it will be a hard copy so it may take until the end of the month. I’m not sure I will survive the wait! Will keep you updated,
Thanks,
Shosh
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I have a possible 1891 entry for Ellen if her father turns out to be David occ slate quarry man
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Thanks Carole,
I thought while I was waiting I’d have a look at the 1939 census and see if I could work out why the family moved to Portsmouth from Cardiff.
If I have it correct:
Griffith died in 1938 in Portsmouth
Ellen is widowed and living with a married couple with surname Waterloo in Portsmouth
Oliver is a Royal Marine in Portsmouth
I cannot find Richard on the 1939 census, nor can I find any marriage record. I do however have his birthdate as 7th Aug 1908 and that he died in Portsmouth in 1998
It would seem logical that Oliver moved for training and the family followed but is there any way of verifying this? I thought that Richards occupation on the 1939 census may help but I haven’t yet found it.
Shosh
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Hi
I think it’s unlikely you will ever find out for sure why they moved. It could have been because of Griffith’s work rather than anything to do with the boys.
I can’t find Richard in 1939 either but he died 16.3.1998 and left a will
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk
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Hiya,
The certificate finally arrived this morning.
Griffiths father = Evan Evans, plasterer
Ellen’s father = Richard Davies,slate quarrier.
Witnesses: Evan R Evans and Mary Davies.
This looks as though your 1881 census was correct. Especially with Evan as a witness as he is an older brother on the census.
Thank you!
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Do you want me to look for Evan/Catherine etc or for Ellen in earlier censuses
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Hiya,
I have Evan on the 1851-1871 census’ (I think). Parents Lewis and Jane.
I can’t find his marriage to Catherine which must have been between 1871 and 1874.
I also can’t find his death which must have been before 1905 as he is deceased on marriage cert.
I have their children from 1881 as Evan R, Mary Jane, Lewis and of course Griffith. There may also be Jane and John but I’m not sure if I am looking at the correct census’ as I am a bit lost when it comes to Welsh geography and the likely distances to move between areas!
If you have time and are willing, all help is appreciated! I shall carry on searching too.
Thanks,
Shosh
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Will do - have to go out now but will look when I get back in a couple of hours
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Going back to the 1881 entry - the children's birthplace is covered by the Pwllheli reg district and GRO search shows Catherine's maiden name as Williams (very helpful!!)
Lewis Dec qtr 1873
Mary Jane Sept qtr 1875
Evan March qtr 1878
Griffith March qtr 1880
There are a number of Evan Evans/Catherine Williams marriages but this one fits the area and the timing of Lewis's birth
Marriages December qtr 1871
Evans Evan Pwllheli 11b 797
WILLIAMS Catherine Pwllheli 11b 797
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You are so good at this!
Thank you!
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This is the 1891 entry and Catherine is a widow. All shown as b Penmorfa
Catherine Evans 39
Griffith 11
John 8
Elizabeth 4
Take your pick - 2 deaths. The RD in 1881 was Festiniog but in 1891 it's Bangor. There are no deaths matching his age in Festiniog - Evan was 30 in 1881
Elizabeth was born 1886/1887 so I searched 1884-1891
Deaths September qtr 1886
Evans Evan 36 Bangor 11b 320
Deaths March qtr 1888
EVANS Evan 38 Bangor 11b 403
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Thank you for all your help Carole. I am sure I will hit another brick wall soon and be back for more help!
It is appreciated,
Shosh
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I’ve found Maud!
I received Griffiths death certificate and his son in law was the informant. I worked backwards and it turns out that Maud is actually Sally Maud and that the Waterloo’s Ellen was living with in 1939 was actually her daughter and Son in Law,
Woohoo!
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Check my family tree