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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 17:47 GMT (UK)

Title: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 17:47 GMT (UK)
I am really struggling with this despite the many sites I have googled, it is as clear as mud.  I am ok on the grandparents down the line and think my grandfathers brothers and sisters are Great Uncles and Aunts. So my great grandfatherís siblings are Great Great . And so it goes on. My dads brother my uncles children are my cousins what are my Great uncles children and so on?

Even typing it is confusing I wonít even get started on cousins children, that can wait. Throw into the equation great x 3 grandfather having a second wife and children but his first wife being my proper great x 3 grandmother.

Does anyone else struggle with this? Can anyone explain it simply?
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 06 January 19 17:52 GMT (UK)
I always used the description of 1st/2nd/3rd cousins etc. 

However - I was told that the children of your first cousin are described as "First cousins once removed"

Their children - First cousins twice removed - and so on

Personally - I still prefer 1st/2nd etc
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: JenB on Sunday 06 January 19 17:58 GMT (UK)
However - I was told that the children of your first cousin are described as "First cousins once removed"

That's correct. 'Removed' indicates a difference in generations.

My aunts daughter is my first cousin i.e. we are the same generation.

My cousin's daughter is my 1st cousin once removed (i.e. she is one generation removed from me)

My cousins daughters daughter is my 1st cousin twice removed (i.e. she is two generations removed from me)



Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 18:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks .
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: JenB on Sunday 06 January 19 18:07 GMT (UK)
Personally - I still prefer 1st/2nd etc

Being a 2nd cousin is different to being 'removed'. Second cousins are of the same generation.

My daughter and my cousin's daughter are second cousins. They are not 'removed' because they are the same generation.

My daughter and my cousin's daughter's daughter are second cousins once removed, because they are one generation apart.

You'll be relieved to know that I have to go out now, so can't complicate things any more  :D
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 18:09 GMT (UK)
JenB   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 06 January 19 18:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Jen

I think that's how it was explained to me some time ago and makes complete sense when you think about it.   You explained it perfectly  :)
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: medpat on Sunday 06 January 19 18:20 GMT (UK)
try this

https://blog.genealogybank.com/genealogy-101-understanding-family-tree-relationships.html

 ;D
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 18:23 GMT (UK)
Yes Jen good explanation. I will throw a curve ball in now. My great x 3 grandparents on paternal side, his son great x 4 uncle, yes?  Is this uncles son a removed cousin to me ?
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 18:26 GMT (UK)
try this

https://blog.genealogybank.com/genealogy-101-understanding-family-tree-relationships.html

 ;D

Thanks, looks promising just had quick look.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Sunday 06 January 19 18:28 GMT (UK)
So Mr X is your great great, great grandfather
Mr Y is his son - your great great great uncle
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Sunday 06 January 19 18:36 GMT (UK)
Because:
Your uncle is the sibling of one of your parents
Your great uncle is the sibling of your grandparent
Your great great uncle is the sibling of your great grandparent
Your great great great uncle is the sibling of your great great grandparent (ie the son of one of your 3 x great grandparents) - Mr Y.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Sunday 06 January 19 19:06 GMT (UK)
So Mr X is your great great, great grandfather
Mr Y is his son - your great great great uncle

I can see where I have gone wrong, I think.  But am still confused and feeling thick. I will just accept I am related whatever my title is.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Sunday 06 January 19 21:03 GMT (UK)
   In my family we call someone who may possibly be distantly related, a 52nd cousin. ;D
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 06 January 19 21:13 GMT (UK)
Because:
Your uncle is the sibling of one of your parents
Your great uncle is the sibling of your grandparent
Your great great uncle is the sibling of your great grandparent
Your great great great uncle is the sibling of your great great grandparent (ie the son of one of your 3 x great grandparents) - Mr Y.

This is where the American version makes it clearer.
They say "grand uncle" instead of "great uncle".
So the number of "greats" matches, ie

Your grand uncle is the sibling of your grandparent
Your great grand uncle is the sibling of your great grandparent
Your great great grand uncle is the sibling of your great great grandparent
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Tickettyboo on Monday 07 January 19 01:21 GMT (UK)
 as if my life isn't complicated enough . .

My 2x Great Granny - husband of a 2x Great Granda

is also

My 3x Great Aunt - sister of another 2x Great Granda

which explains why I don't venture into all the cousin (removed or otherwise) classifications, my head hurts enough without going into that territory :-)

Boo
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Monday 07 January 19 09:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for your explanations, itís a lot to take in.  :o  :D ;D ;DThink I will just stick with what I know, the great grandparents and great uncles and aunts, will look upon all others as some sort of cousins/distant relatives. I know they are related to me, but as to how? That will remain a mystery. In the grand scheme of things itís not that important. It was just for an article I was writting for a magazine about the grandson (3 times murderer and  wife beater, an evil man)of my 3 great grandfather, itís not really crucial to the story.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 07 January 19 12:24 GMT (UK)
The simple way to determine the degree of cousinship is to count the number of generations between you and the common ancestor.

First cousins share grandparents so there is one generation in between (parents)
Second cousins share great-grandparents so there are two generations in between (parents, grandparents)
Third cousins share great-great grandparents so there are three generations in between (parents, grandparents, great-grandparents)
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: medpat on Monday 07 January 19 12:24 GMT (UK)
Evil man is a son of your aunt or uncle therefore he is your first cousin, he's a grandson of your 3rd gt grandparents so therefore

1st cousin three times removed

Or 1st cousin 3 generations ago.


Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 07 January 19 12:37 GMT (UK)
Evil man is a son of your aunt or uncle therefore he is your first cousin, he's a grandson of your 3rd gt grandparents so therefore

1st cousin three times removed

Or 1st cousin 3 generations ago.
No, Jane said that the man is the son of her 3x gt grandparents
This makes him a brother of one of her 2x gt grandparents, which makes him a 3xgt uncle.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: medpat on Monday 07 January 19 12:41 GMT (UK)
This is the relationship as Jane explained posted 9.47 today

I was writting for a magazine about the grandson (3 times murderer and  wife beater, an evil man)of my 3 great grandfather, itís not really crucial to the story.


He is Jane's 1st cousin 3 x removed, one of his parents is the 3rd gt aunt or uncle.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 07 January 19 12:43 GMT (UK)
Quote
I know they are related to me, but as to how? That will remain a mystery. In the grand scheme of things itís not that important.

Definitely the best way to go!   Whatever you call them you are still going to have to describe the relationship, so . . . . .  ;D ;D ;D

Wiggy
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 07 January 19 12:46 GMT (UK)
This is the relationship as Jane explained posted 9.47 today

I was writting for a magazine about the grandson (3 times murderer and  wife beater, an evil man)of my 3 great grandfather, itís not really crucial to the story.


He is Jane's 1st cousin 3 x removed, one of his parents is the 3rd gt aunt or uncle.

So she did. She's changed the question. I give up.

Modified - I was answering this query and hadn't seen the later one "Yes Jen good explanation. I will throw a curve ball in now. My great x 3 grandparents on paternal side, his son great x 4 uncle, yes?"
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: medpat on Monday 07 January 19 12:58 GMT (UK)
No children of 3rd gt grandparents are 3rd gt aunts and uncles.

Think of it this way

3rd great grandfather =

great, great, great, grand (or great) father so 4th great father (that's the way I found to work out things)

 ;D
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 07 January 19 13:17 GMT (UK)
quote author=medpat link=topic=806128.msg6649411#msg6649411 date=1546865907]
No children of 3rd gt grandparents are 3rd gt aunts and uncles.

Think of it this way

3rd great grandfather =

great, great, great, grand (or great) father so 4th great father (that's the way I found to work out things)

 ;D
[/quote]

Yes - that's what I said.
So Mr X is your great great, great grandfather
Mr Y is his son - your great great great uncle
[
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: medpat on Monday 07 January 19 13:48 GMT (UK)
Sorry I thought the quote was you saying son of 3rd gt grandparent was a 4th gt uncle :o ;D
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Monday 07 January 19 14:54 GMT (UK)
I'm frantically looking through a file box, sure that somewhere I've got a printout of a chart which by finding a common ancestor, and tracing each party's relationship to that ancestor, arrives at a box which gives the correct title for that relationship. I used it for years, it was easy to use, and proved invaluable, and it worked out fully each time. If I can find it I'll try to say where I got the wretched thing. Watch this space....
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 07 January 19 14:54 GMT (UK)
I'm going to confuse things further now  ;D

I came across this, and I don't think it's right.
https://anthonyadolph.co.uk/how-to-work-out-cousinship

Quote
You are your second cousinís second cousin, for example. Where it becomes complicated, again, is when there is a difference in the generations.

Say your first cousin X has a child, Y. Y is your first cousin once removed, as we have seen above. But if you want to describe the situation from their point of view and say ĎI am Yís Ö. cousiní you must start with their position on the family tree.

From Yís point of view, they are looking across the family tree, on their line, at the space directly below you. If you have a child, then that child is Yís second cousin, but whether or not you have a child is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you are one generation removed from that position. You are therefore Yís second cousin once removed.

I've checked this out on my genealogy software (Family Historian) which shows relationships.  For instance, my grandmother's first cousin is my first cousin twice removed.  Changing it round so that he is the root, his relationship to me is exactly the same - first cousin twice removed. 
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 07 January 19 15:51 GMT (UK)
   Is this where "once removed upwards" or "downwards" comes in?
 I also use Family Historian and find the application mentioned by Sloe Gin very useful.
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 07 January 19 18:13 GMT (UK)
It was just for an article I was writting for a magazine about the grandson (3 times murderer and  wife beater, an evil man)of my 3 great grandfather,
If I found someone like that I'd relegate him to "distant relation".
Title: Re: Understanding relationships of ancestors to me. HELP.
Post by: jettejjane on Monday 07 January 19 19:39 GMT (UK)
It was just for an article I was writting for a magazine about the grandson (3 times murderer and  wife beater, an evil man)of my 3 great grandfather,
If I found someone like that I'd relegate him to "distant relation".

Yes thatís what I have put in the end. It is not relevant to his story. That we are related is good enough for me. Have quite a few black sheep in family but he takes it to a whole new level. Happy to say he was killed by a lynch mob while awaiting trial.