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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: YatesJones on Sunday 06 January 19 18:36 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help overcome one of my brick walls please?
My paternal granmother died in 1942 in West Bromwich and was, we believe around 42 at death. This age seems to fit with her marriage certificate which states her name at marriage to be Clara Stokes. There is also a suggestion that her parents never married and as such she could be registered as Clara Boyes.
I cannot find her burial anywhere so thought I would track from the other end but I cannot locate her birth either - at present she exists when she married my grandad, had her children and when she actually died but I cant find her before or after!
Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated.
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What was your grandfather’s name and dob?
What was the date of their marriage?
Who does she say is her father on the marriage cert?
Who were the witnesses?
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You haven’t given us her all-important name at death :)
Presumably she is Clara Yates - death aged 42, Sep qtr 1942 West Bromwich 6b 579?
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Have you looked for an exact birthdate for her in the 1939 Register?
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You haven’t given us her all-important name at death :)
Presumably she is Clara Yates - death aged 42, Sep qtr 1942 West Bromwich 6b 579?
Doh - how could I forget that?! Yes thats correct, she died in July 1942.
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Married to Leonard? Looks like her birthdate may be 18 August 1899.
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Daughter: Ada D Yates, mother’s maiden name Stokes, birth reg Sep qtr 1923 West Bromwich.
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Yes, that fits with what I have but I cannot find her (Clara) birth registered at all.
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Have you got the certificate for her 1920 (West Bromwich) marriage to Leonard?
Who was recorded as her father? Names of witnesses?
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Yes i do - her father is listed as Thomas Stokes. Witness Nellie Stokes (who we think is her sister), the other witness was an I or L Whitehouse.
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OK - something to work with there.
What is the source of the suggestion that the Boyes name may be relevant?
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I made contact through Ancestry with someone in Canada who may be a cousin - his mother was Gladys and we believe she was Clara's sister. Everything sort of fits with what we know or think we know but as I cant find any evidence of her birth etc I cant prove it as a fact.
When I looked back at census records I could find the family of Clara and Thomas (parents) but they do not appear to have ever married. She was Clara Boyes.
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OK so did this unmarried couple have a 1 yr old daughter Clara in the 1901 census? Can you point us to their census entries?
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That sound right. Apparently the census was 31st March 1901 and we think one of the children was registered as Hannah on the census but by the time they had to register her (14th May 1901) they had changed her name to Gladys - this fits with what my contact in Canada knows from his parents.
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OK I see the free index for 1911 suggests we should be looking in Smethwick (King’s Norton district).
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We think Clara and Thomas (parents) had Gladys, Nellie (who we cant find either) and Joseph.
Any help or even an explanation as to why I cant find them is really appreciated!
Smethwick sounds right...
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Registrations:
Gladys Boyes, Jun qtr 1901 King’s Norton
Ronald Thorn Boyes, Sep qtr 1902 King’s Norton ??
Thomas Boyes, Mar qtr 1906 King’s Norton
Joseph Henry Boyes, Sep qtr 1907 King’s Norton
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So do you think that Nellie and Gladys were perhaps from another relationship?
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I think most likely thing is that Clara was simply not registered - possibly just slipping through the net with young unmarried first-time parents not getting round to it.
1901 census: RG13/2822/75/40
2 Oak St, Smethwick (visitors to a Weston family)
Clara Boys S 24 Tinworker Smethwick
Thomas Stokes S 25 Brick carter Smethwick
Clara Boys 1 Smethwick
Hannah Boys 3wks Smethwick
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That was kind of what I thought but I couldnt find Nellie either and she wouldve been born around 1903 which is in the middle of the other children.
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Yes - but they may just have had a difficult or even chaotic family life. It is not clear whether they were the parents of Ronald Thorn Boyes b 1902 but he seems to have been (informally) adopted out. The fertility numbers suggest they had a child who died. Perhaps birth registrations sometimes slipped through the net for them.
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Oh hum!!
Poor Clara, problems at both ends of her life - no birth certificate to prove her parents line and no grave either!
In the absence of a birth certificate, any ideas on how to prove her parents?
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How about this then. Clara Frances Muriel Stokes born Wolverhampton first quarter 1900, mothers maiden name WESTON which matches the family she is with in the 1901 census
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How about this then. Clara Frances Muriel Stokes born Wolverhampton first quarter 1900, mothers maiden name WESTON which matches the family she is with in the 1901 census
Ah. Interesting! Her baptism on 6 December 1899 at St Mark’s, Wolverhampton names her parents as Thomas (an insurance agent) and Clara, of Stubbs’ Lane, Bradmore.
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Yes, we had that a while back and ruled it out but I have the birth cert for it.
It says, mothers maiden name Weston with fathers occupation as Insurance Agent which doesnt seem right as on Clara and Leonards marriage cert her father is listed as a Carter.
Its not out of the realms of possibility but I thought it might be a stretch given the occupations
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Could be a different Thomas though? I agree it is confusing.
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Not her, she married James Bleakley in 1919
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Throw one in, don't know who she is at the moment.
DEAKIN, CLARA
Mother's Maiden Surname: BOYES
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in KINGS NORTON Volume 06C Page 505
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OK back to Nellie - I wonder whether she is the Ellen Stokes born 20 November 1902 whose 1910 school record in Smethwick shows her father as Thomas, of 44 Market St?
Ronald Thorn Boyes may well be a red herring & not part of this family.
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Throw one in, don't know who she is at the moment.
DEAKIN, CLARA
Mother's Maiden Surname: BOYES
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in KINGS NORTON Volume 06C Page 505
This is interesting as Louisa Weston from that 1901 was née Deakin I think.
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The 1939 register for them is odd as well!!
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Just want to clarify/add in case anyone goes off down a rabbit hole....
...DNA tests match as a cousin with a guy living in Canada, whose grandmother was Gladys Boyes. Her sister was Nellie and this has been confirmed verbally from another cousin/aunt.
My dad also recollects both Nellie and Gladys being mentioned when he was small.
Based on other records, Smethwick and Kings Norton in particular seem to be the main area the family lived.
Our Ancestry tree has a suggestion (not proven) that Thomas Stokes' mother could be Ellen Jane Deakin born c1861 which may be where this info is coming from.
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I presume you know the 6 children in the 1911 census then? As you don't mention all the siblings.
Joseph is registered in 1908 in Kings Norton
Thomas is registered in 1906 in Kings Norton
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Registrations:
Gladys Boyes, Jun qtr 1901 King’s Norton
Ronald Thorn Boyes, Sep qtr 1902 King’s Norton ??
Thomas Boyes, Mar qtr 1906 King’s Norton
Joseph Henry Boyes, Sep qtr 1907 King’s Norton
None of those 4 have a mothers maiden name listed
3 of them are in Smethwick with I believe the couple AVM228 mentioned from the 1901 census - he is down as H though (there is a suggested death o ancestry for a Thomas H Stokes) but she still have the Boyes surname
It has 7 children born alive to the marriage with a line drawn through it - ad no years for the marriage
There is also a Clara of the right age on there
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He's down as H but it's definitely a T on the image
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I wonder if Thomas Stokes was originally married to Ellen Weston
they being the parents of Clara Stokes
A Ellen Stokes died Dec 1901 aged 29
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I'm pretty certain that Thomas Stokes parents were George Stokes and Ellen Jane Carpenter not DEAKIN.
Married in Dudley in 1867.
Thomas' parents in census are George and Ellen J born Long Itchington 1846
Ellen Jane Carpenter born 1848 Long Itchington in the 1861 census
Thomas William Stokes born 1876 Kings Norton mothers maiden name Carpenter on the GRO index
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Throw one in, don't know who she is at the moment.
DEAKIN, CLARA
Mother's Maiden Surname: BOYES
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in KINGS NORTON Volume 06C Page 505
May be worth requesting this one, with the proviso that the birth date matches that on the 1939 census
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OK back to Nellie - I wonder whether she is the Ellen Stokes born 20 November 1902 whose 1910 school record in Smethwick shows her father as Thomas, of 44 Market St?
I'm guessig this is her birth registratio
Ellen Maud Stokes Mar1903 mmn Beaman
Theres a potential marriage between a Thomas Stokes and a Rose Hannah Beaman in 1895
There is a Ellen aged 8 in Smethwick to a Thomas and Rose Hannah Stokes - so I doubt thats her