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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Paulo Leeds on Monday 07 January 19 12:29 GMT (UK)
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Is the word "uncle-in-law" ever used when talking about the husband married to your mother's sister?
Or is this person typically still called your "uncle", even though the person is not a blood relative?
Seems strange that an Uncle by blood, and an Uncle by marriage would have the same title...
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Is the word "uncle-in-law" ever used
"Oh - hello Uncle in law John - how are you"
No - I can't really see it taking off can you? Have you ever hear it used - would you use it yourself?
What about honorary uncles and aunts who are just close family friends? Do we greet them - "hello honorary aunt/uncle" ::)
Accept it's just uncle/aunt or christian names
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Rather too much of a mouthful I would think.
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Uncle in law would be quite a mouthful but you're right - Uncle or Aunt are ambiguous terms and can mean one of two things (and that's not including all the honorary aunts and uncles that many families acquire!)
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So why do we use father-in-law very commonly?
Also until you reach a certain age, you probably think your Uncle by marriage is as close a relation to you as your Uncle by blood...
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I think this is a very good question. It is irrelevant that it sounds like a mouthful when you say uncle in law John, as you would never use it in that form. You never address your mother in law as mother-in-law Susan or mother-in-law Mrs Smith.
Martin
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The Oxford dictionary has
Uncle - NOUN - The brother of one's father or mother or the husband of one's aunt.
English Language is a strange thing, I hate as a female being addressed as a 'Guy(s)' after all 'Guy' is male why should 'Guys' be both sexes.
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My point is the equal footing an Uncle by blood gets with an Uncle by marriage.
is it not the same as calling your Mother-in-law 'Mum' ??
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My point is the equal footing an Uncle by blood gets with an Uncle by marriage.
is it not the same as calling your Mother-in-law 'Mum' ??
Yes, exactly the same. Some people do call their in-laws Mother and Father, and I'm pretty sure that this was much more common in the past.
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Is there any real point to these questions?
At the end of the day - we call these relatives/friends by whatever term we - or they - are comfortable with and not by any dictionary or other definition of their relationship to us.
I never addressed my mother in law by any name other than her married title. My husband addressed my mother the same way. Many of my friends were relieved when they had children as they were then able to start referring to their mother/father in law as gran/grandad
2 of my mothers sisters made it clear as I reached my teens that they wanted me to call them only by their christian names whereas her other sister and her brother were still addressed as auntie and uncle.
My husband and I are honorary aunt and uncle to my former neighbours children who although now in their late 40's vehemently rejected our suggestion that they just use our christian names.
To repeat what I said above - we call these relatives/friends by whatever term we - or they - are comfortable with
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Is the word "uncle-in-law" ever used
"Oh - hello Uncle in law John - how are you"
No - I can't really see it taking off can you? Have you ever hear it used - would you use it yourself?
What about honorary uncles and aunts who are just close family friends? Do we greet them - "hello honorary aunt/uncle" ::)
Accept it's just uncle/aunt or christian names
In our family its always just Christian names, it think its strange to call people Aunt Mary or whatever, I would perhaps use it when talking about them to someone else who doesn't know who they are, but normally would just refer to them as Mary.
We don't refer to our parents as Mother Ann, or our sister as sister Kate, etc, the only time I have every heard the relation being used is to aunts and uncles.
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My experience nowadays is that first names are used rather than titles in terms of parents in law and uncles/aunts.
In informal cases you could say uncle/aunt or mum/dad but when referring to someone use the more formal term - perhaps even ‘this is my aunt’s husband’ etc.
It is just one of life’s many mysteries, Paulo. We are all different ;)
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I must discuss this with my niece in law and nephew in law to see what their views are.
Martin
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I must discuss this with my niece in law and nephew in law to see what their views are.
Martin
Would that be your niece's husband?
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Thankyou guys, anyway my main point was that until a person is old enough to understand and differentiate between a blood relative to a none-blood relative they may not realise an Uncle and Uncle-in-law is different
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I found that I'd been "adopted" by the adult daughter of a friend as an honourary auntie, some years ago, and every card she sends is signed to me as her "auntie"! It's quite nice, actually, as I've no real nieces or nephews, by blood or by marriage...
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until a person is old enough to understand and differentiate between a blood relative to a none-blood relative they may not realise an Uncle and Uncle-in-law is different
Equally, they wouldn't be able to grasp the difference between gran & grandad (the relationship) on either side & if e.g. there was a 2nd marriage as children are introduced to their relatives by titles without the splitting of hairs until as you say they are old enough to understand.
I think for simplicity it makes sense as people you talk to don't need a run-down of the genetics or lack of.
I still refer to my 'uncle-in-law' as uncle (although now deceased) & when I was contacted many yrs ago about my connection (he's in my tree as father of my cousins), I said he was my uncle through marriage which I'm sure would be easy to work out.
Children, if like myself, will ask when they want to know the 'ins & outs' of relationships & I welcome that day when my g/kids ask as we have a very confusing tree ;D
Annie
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until a person is old enough to understand and differentiate between a blood relative to a none-blood relative they may not realise an Uncle and Uncle-in-law is different
Equally, they wouldn't be able to grasp the difference between gran & grandad (the relationship) on either side & if e.g. there was a 2nd marriage as children are introduced to their relatives by titles without the splitting of hairs until as you say they are old enough to understand.
you don't mean in terms of gender ;D
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you don't mean in terms of gender ;D
Not in my own family but I do know of one such where the male is now female although I don't know how things would have been explained etc. & have no wish to know ;)
Annie
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you don't mean in terms of gender ;D
Not in my own family but I do know of one such where the male is now female although I don't know how things would have been explained etc. & have no wish to know ;)
Annie
so what do you mean by " they wouldn't be able to grasp the difference between gran & grandad (the relationship) on either side" sorry?
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My grandfather had three cousins who were given full titles - Cousin Sarah, Cousin Gertie and Cousin Annie - whenever they were spoken of, and even spoken to. They were not closely related to each other, coming from different parts of the family. They signed Christmas cards with these names, too. These titles were handed down to younger generations, so my mother also referred to them in the same way and down another generation so did my brother and I. Cousin Annie's daughter signed her cards to us as Cousin Vera. Just a quaint family custom, I suppose. Curiously my mother's true cousin was known to us children as Auntie Hilda.
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so what do you mean by " they wouldn't be able to grasp the difference between gran & grandad (the relationship) on either side" sorry?
Some languages e.g Swedish distinguish morfar= mother's father from farfar= father's father. English doesn't which is the difference I assume is being referred to.
But in a family they might be called "gran and grandpa" and "nanna and poppa" or any other way of differentiation.
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so what do you mean by " they wouldn't be able to grasp the difference between gran & grandad (the relationship) on either side" sorry?
Some languages e.g Swedish distinguish morfar= mother's father from farfar= father's father. English doesn't which is the difference I assume is being referred to.
But in a family they might be called "gran and grandpa" and "nanna and poppa" or any other way of differentiation.
we used the surname
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Thankyou guys, anyway my main point was that until a person is old enough to understand and differentiate between a blood relative to a none-blood relative they may not realise an Uncle and Uncle-in-law is different
This is all becoming a bit pedantic.
You would be talking about very young children here. Part of family life is discovering and explaining relationships through light hearted activities. It used to be looking at photo albums etc but children soon know whose mum and dad their grandparents are. Most families talk and explain.
When it comes to more distant relatives - either in terms of relationship or geography then that could be more complicated.
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You would be talking about very young children here. Part of family life is discovering and explaining relationships through light hearted activities. It used to be looking at photo albums etc but children soon know whose mum and dad their grandparents are. Most families talk and explain.
When it comes to more distant relatives - either in terms of relationship or geography then that could be more complicated.
Thank you Heywood...perfectly put!
Moderator edit: comment removed. Inappropriate.
Annie
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There's no distinction of siblings-in-law. Always ambiguous unless you know the context.
Brother-in-law can be the husband of someone's sister, or the brother of their husband.
Sister-in-law can be the wife of someone's brother, or the sister of their wife.
I will say here that the use of "aunty" or "auntie" always grates on me when someone is referring to their aunt. It's fine when used with the name ("I'll ask Auntie Jane" or "Happy birthday, Aunty Liz!" but it seems rather childish to say eg "My aunty would know" instead of "My aunt would know". There's no such issue with "uncle".
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you don't mean in terms of gender ;D
Not in my own family but I do know of one such where the male is now female although I don't know how things would have been explained etc. & have no wish to know ;)
Annie
A topic on "Woman's Hour" this week. BBC Radio Four, 10 a.m. Tomorrow's edition, point of view of wife of a person who has transitioned will be heard.
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The Oxford dictionary has
Uncle - NOUN - The brother of one's father or mother or the husband of one's aunt.
English Language is a strange thing, I hate as a female being addressed as a 'Guy(s)' after all 'Guy' is male why should 'Guys' be both sexes.
For the same reason as man applies to males and females, incidentally Guy is a name which may be a forename or surname and when used as a surname applies equally to the males and the females in the family. I suggest you meant guy or guys.
Uncle and Aunt in English often refers to adult friends of the family who are not related to the family in any way.
Cheers
Guy
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I must admit I do cringe, as a "more mature" female when addressed happily as "You guys..." usually by a pleasant young barman or similar!
No point saying anything, I can almost see why they do it .... but only once have I resorted to "I'm more of a Doll than a Guy", when the lad in question must've used it about 10 times in a short conversation! Needless to say, he looked baffled, although the young woman working alongside him chortled.
I'm certainly an old Grumpy!
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Is the word "uncle-in-law" ever used
"Oh - hello Uncle in law John - how are you"
No - I can't really see it taking off can you? Have you ever hear it used - would you use it yourself?
What about honorary uncles and aunts who are just close family friends? Do we greet them - "hello honorary aunt/uncle" ::)
Accept it's just uncle/aunt or christian names
What about cousins once removed called "uncle"? (as my cousin's daughters always address me)
By the time I reached middle age I just addressed uncles and aunts by their Christian names. My mother always thought it a bit "lower class" to use "auntie" for parent's friends and it always had to be Mrs -----. (She could be a bit of a Mrs Bucket at times)
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I think this is a very good question. It is irrelevant that it sounds like a mouthful when you say uncle in law John, as you would never use it in that form. You never address your mother in law as mother-in-law Susan or mother-in-law Mrs Smith.
Martin
I remember from Mrs Dale's Diary that Dr Dale always addressed Mrs Freeman as "mother-in-law".
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Someone I knew used to call his mother in law - they got on very well - "Millie" developed from "Mil".
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You would be talking about very young children here. Part of family life is discovering and explaining relationships through light hearted activities. It used to be looking at photo albums etc but children soon know whose mum and dad their grandparents are. Most families talk and explain.
When it comes to more distant relatives - either in terms of relationship or geography then that could be more complicated.
Thank you Heywood...perfectly put!
Moderator edit: comment removed. Inappropriate.
Annie
...and you're coming across as very rude and a bit of an idiot madam!
HTH
In what way do I need to 'read up on genealogy'? I simply inquired as to what you meant by "they wouldn't be able to grasp the difference between gran & grandad (the relationship) on either side"
as your grasp of English and general grammar seemed as if you were either very old or very young, and it wasn't made clear at all!
Can I suggest you read up on some basic grammar Annie (Rosinish)?
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It is odd that it is sadly OK for a waiter to call a mixed group 'Guys', yet I'd probably get a slap if I called the waitress 'Doll'. Use of 'guys' for a mixed group has been recorded since the 1950s. (Citation needed, but it was in a US film.)
I've heard groups of girls use it describing themselves. I really cringe when it is used by a parent for a mixed bunch of small children.
Martin
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May I suggest that some posters to this thread read or re-read the following:
"RootsChat Terms of Use
4. Specific Forum Rules
4.1. As a user you agree not to do any of the following:
1. Abuse, harass, threaten, stalk, defame or in any way seek to violate the rights of another user or third party … "
I'm speaking as a Dutch uncle. (Look it up if you don't know what it means.)
I'm currently listening to PM programme Radio 4. Topic being discussed is widespread ill-feeling unleashed by Brexit. Remember Jo Cox M.P. who was murdered. Follow her example - spread happiness not hate.
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When we were little, my brother and I had an "Auntie Scotland" because that's where she lived (a long way away from us). She was not a relation, but our mother's best friend from their young days. She was, however, the only person apart from relations that we called Uncle or Aunt.
Melbell
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Returning to the topic.
I think uncle or "nuncle" was used as a form of address to an elderly man by a younger character in a Shakespeare play. I can't remember which play. I may be wrong.
Raised in a working-class community in North-West England, aunt was auntie but parents were dad and mam or mum not mummy and daddy. Large family on both sides so plenty of aunts and uncles; no need for honorary, unrelated ones. The only time I recall being confused as a child was when a friend referred to someone as "Auntie So & so" when there was no relationship.
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When we were little, my brother and I had an "Auntie Scotland" because that's where she lived (a long way away from us).
The present Queen used to call her paternal grandfather "Grandpapa England". She was 9 or 10 when he died.
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May I suggest that some posters to this thread read or re-read the following:
"RootsChat Terms of Use
4. Specific Forum Rules
4.1. As a user you agree not to do any of the following:
1. Abuse, harass, threaten, stalk, defame or in any way seek to violate the rights of another user or third party … "
I'm speaking as a Dutch uncle. (Look it up if you don't know what it means.)
I'm currently listening to PM programme Radio 4. Topic being discussed is widespread ill-feeling unleashed by Brexit. Remember Jo Cox M.P. who was murdered. Follow her example - spread happiness not hate.
Agreed. Rosinith decided to get funny with me.
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May I suggest that some posters to this thread read or re-read the following:
"RootsChat Terms of Use
4. Specific Forum Rules
4.1. As a user you agree not to do any of the following:
1. Abuse, harass, threaten, stalk, defame or in any way seek to violate the rights of another user or third party … "
I'm speaking as a Dutch uncle. (Look it up if you don't know what it means.)
I'm currently listening to PM programme Radio 4. Topic being discussed is widespread ill-feeling unleashed by Brexit. Remember Jo Cox M.P. who was murdered. Follow her example - spread happiness not hate.
Agreed. Rosinith decided to get funny with me.
Just as important as how something begins is how it ends.
I didn't want to report this thread to a moderator.
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I am in Australia, born and raised in New South Wales central western rural districts ..... born 1947.
Aunts/Aunties and Uncles ... these included Godparents, siblings Godparents, cousins Godparents and Godparents of school friends and not just both the parents of my first cousins ....
Also people my grandparents age who knew me ... if they spoke to me inside my/their/gran/ home were aunt/uncle BUT if at Church or shops or sport or community gathering .... Mr /Mrs Surname or if informal quietly ... as an aside ... Mr S or Mrs S (where S is just the initial capital letter of surname) ... and never interupt your elders, but stand , hands clasped together in front to show you wish to speak or clasped behind to show you are just listening...
Once you were 'old enough' ... you could start a conversation otherwise you needed to wait ...and wait ... and .....w a i t ....
My generation quietly grew up and by mid 1960s chose when to obey and when to ignore those rules ..
JM
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Paulo,
My sincere apologies!
I was having a bad day with a serious issue (no excuse I know)! & automatically took your question the wrong way (wrong frame of mind) & when I logged on later (when I'd calmed down), to delete it, my comp cut out & have been away from home until now.
Annie :-[
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I think this is a very good question. It is irrelevant that it sounds like a mouthful when you say uncle in law John, as you would never use it in that form. You never address your mother in law as mother-in-law Susan or mother-in-law Mrs Smith.
Martin
yes I go along with that. never thought about it til late in adult life and doing family history.
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Sloe gin said,
"I will say here that the use of "aunty" or "auntie" always grates on me when someone is referring to their aunt. It's fine when used with the name ("I'll ask Auntie Jane" or "Happy birthday, Aunty Liz!" but it seems rather childish to say eg "My aunty would know" instead of "My aunt would know". There's no such issue with "uncle"."
Nunky is often used as an affectionate term for an uncle. I had Nunky John. 45 years ago at school we even used it for our chemistry teacher, Nunky Vernon, who was particularly avuncular.
Martin